19 minutes ago, jcomm said:

From the docs above I couldn't find any details about the possibility to create models with multiple tails, wings, and their associated interactions?

I thought this would now be possible in FS2024, to model biplanes or aircraft with 2 or 3 tails like the Constellation.. 

Apparently not yet possible...

This particular SDK tutorial not specifically mentioning multiple tails/wings doesn't mean that it's not possible.

EDIT: Actually it looks this 2024 SDK tutorial on aircraft geometry might not have been updated much since 2020 (2020 version: https://docs.flightsimulator.com/html/mergedProjects/How_To_Make_An_Aircraft/Contents/Files/Flight_Model/Geometry.htm?agt=index) so likely need to wait longer for the new details. Seb also said they'll be adding a section to the docs about the new instruments they used in IRL planes to fine tune their default FMs and the methodology they developed, haven't seen that in the current version of the docs either.
 

Edited December 7, 20241 yr by lwt1971

Pretty sure they said in an interview that you can do all sorts of weird shapes now if you want. The SDK yeah must be out of date in that section.

Another real life 172 pilot on the 172 in MSFS 2024:

Quote

I’m a real world pilot with many many hours in 172s. I’ve never done what you do in the video, so I can’t comment on that. However, to me, the 172 in FS24 is more realistic, especially on the ground. The takeoff role is more accurate too, if I recall in FS2020 it would take forever to get airborne, whereas in 2024 you’re off by the thousand footers, which is accurate to real life

 

37 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Another real life 172 pilot on the 172 in MSFS 2024:

 

Mind explaining in your own words what’s the purpose of this maneuver, and what exactly are we measuring here?

2 hours ago, ha5mvo said:

Mind explaining in your own words what’s the purpose of this maneuver, and what exactly are we measuring here?

Just had a quick look, it seem the person in the video is trying to do some kind of power-on stall, but doing it incorrectly and inconsistently.

In FS2020 his speed never approached stall speed, and there was really no stall behavior. In FS2024 he flew very slow and easily stalled airplane by pulling back the yoke.

On power-on stall, C172 will drop wing to one side (often left side) and requires instant opposite rudder to level it. A common mistake for beginner is trying to correct wing drop by banking the yoke, that will only make airplane start to drop/spin even worse. When I made such mistake in my early stall training, that spinning sight picture was terrifying ... good I had the instructor on the right seat..   🙃

Anyway, in FS2024 you can correct the wing drop on power-on stall if you step on the rudder timely as IRL. In FS2020 it barely responds to rudder input, feels kind of scripted. 

Overall, stall behavior in FS2024 C172 is a big improvement over FS2020. I had been very happy with FS2024 172's flight dynamic...

... until I recently flew it in live windy weather. Gees, it bounces left and right like a balloon. Very unrealistic. What a shame!

Edited December 16, 20241 yr by FlyIce

3 hours ago, ha5mvo said:

Mind explaining in your own words what’s the purpose of this maneuver, and what exactly are we measuring here?

I think he was focused on the comment and not the video

1 hour ago, FlyIce said:

When I made such mistake in my early stall training, that spinning sight picture was terrifying ... good I had the instructor on the right seat..   🙃

Yep - I did this in my training days also.  My instructor yelled "you've put us in a spin!" and brought us out of it.  Ironically, I had been doing the same maneuvers the previous day while practicing them solo.  If this had happened then I probably wouldn't have survived.

It just looked like we were sitting still while looking straight down (but the world was going round and round).  I would recognize it instantly today and could quickly recover.  This is why I advocate for spin-training as a requirement in the US but it continues to fall on deaf ears...

Another real life 172 pilot on the new flight model in MSFS 2024 vs MSFS 2020:

 

Quote

150 hours on a real C172 here, MSFS 2024 blows the MSFS 2020 C172 out of the water in every aspect. It feels way more like the real thing than 2020 ever did.

...

...

I use a Honeycomb Alpha yoke, the controls feel solid and very well reflective of the actual aircraft. There is a really exaggerated effect of turbulence when its in the higher ends, but everything else feels so much better than in 2020.

I challenge you to try a simple manuever, load the Asobo 172 in 2020, 2000ft, power off and set a pitch up attitude of 40 degrees, when the nose drops, pull yoke all the way until it stalls

Then do it in 2024, the difference is huge, if a real C172 behaved in a power off stall the same way it does in 2020, it would be a restricted or probably forbidden. The C172 stalls so slowly and controlled, practicing it in real life is actually

 

Another real life pilot who flew the 172 but it seems it was many years ago:

Quote

If you’re concerned with “twitchyness” in the flight model, a better comparison might be timing the rates of roll/pitch/yaw with full control surface deflections. Ensure that weight, speed altitude and atmospheric conditions are the same between comparisons. FYI Va in a 172 is 105kts at Max weight, so the test you show would probably overstress the aircraft if it was much below maximum.

Looking at your video the 2024 version shows post-stall behaviour which is closer to what I’d expect in an accelerated stall. A wing-drop would be more likely with any asymmetry on the aircraft, whether from rigging or residual control inputs. Post stall flight modelling is notoriously difficult to do though, due to the unpredictability of turbulent airflow. Even multi-million dollar level D sims come with a disclaimer that if you take them outside their normal flight envelope they may not accurately represent the real aircraft. That’s also why aerobatic aircraft are so difficult to simulate well, and I don’t think any sims do a good job with them yet.

Having said that, inside the normal flight envelope I find the flight model on the 172 in 2024 pretty accurate. I’ve only got ~300 hours in them and it’s been a while though. Msfs2024 has pleeenty of issues and needs a bunch more time in the oven before it’s ready, but I’m actually pretty happy with the flight modelling. As always it’s very dependent on how well each developer has done each aircraft, but I’m excited to see what devs can come up with in the future.

 

Edited December 17, 20241 yr by abrams_tank

V1 Simulations did a couple of flights in the new iniBuilds A300-600 "Premium Upgrade" edition.. given that it's one of the very few payware high fidelity airliners available currently making use of the 2024 FDE new/native capabilities, it's a good indication of what's capable in the new sim (of course we already have a good hint based on the default birds given the numerous positive reports so far).

Both of the below scenarios are him hand flying and landing in crosswind situations... some of his quotes/findings:

https://youtu.be/Kca-Uf0iWkE?t=8527
"like I said before, leaps and bounds ahead of what we had in 2020 in terms of physics"
"this airplane might be one of the better ones I've flown in the sim for crosswind handling, pretty much spot on"
"this flight model is feeling pretty dang good"
"this a300, did not expect it to handle as well as it has been handling"

https://youtu.be/qd7GfMEoHLM?t=10072
"20 knot direct crosswind, watch me decrab, watch what happens to the struts, airplane is gonna want to weathervane a little bit of the left, i'm going to maintain center line with right rudder, the right gear compresses more than the left as it should"
"that's really good crosswind physics there, one of the best I've seen in the sim so far"
"because normally in 2020 after touchdown it will be an immediate no inertial just ice skate into the wind effect"
 

Edited December 17, 20241 yr by lwt1971

2 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

V1 Simulations did a couple of flights in the new iniBuilds A300-600 "Premium Upgrade" edition.. given that it's one of the very few payware high fidelity airliners available currently making use of the 2024 FDE new/native capabilities, it's a good indication of what's capable in the new sim (of course we already have a good hint based on the default birds given the numerous positive reports so far).

Both of the below scenarios are him hand flying and landing in crosswind situations... some of his quotes/findings:

https://youtu.be/Kca-Uf0iWkE?t=8527
"like I said before, leaps and bounds ahead of what we had in 2020 in terms of physics"
"this airplane might be one of the better ones I've flown in the sim for crosswind handling, pretty much spot on"
"this flight model is feeling pretty dang good"
"this a300, did not expect it to handle as well as it has been handling"

https://youtu.be/qd7GfMEoHLM?t=10072
"20 knot direct crosswind, watch me decrab, watch what happens to the struts, airplane is gonna want to weathervane a little bit of the left, i'm going to maintain center line with right rudder, the right gear compresses more than the left as it should"
"that's really good crosswind physics there, one of the best I've seen in the sim so far"
"because normally in 2020 after touchdown it will be an immediate no inertial just ice skate into the wind effect"
 

While 2024 has undoubtedly improved.

Anyone person who praises MSFs landing gear strut compression must of completely forgot what xplane landing gear strut physics looks like.

(Another example)

Imo theres a long way to go in regards to landing gear physics. They have extremely little bounce. The simulation of landing gear compression is no doubt simplistic. And the fact that so many plane developers fail to really simulate it well shows its definitely on Asobos end. But so little people ever point it out that I dont think Asobo will bother trying to improve upon it.

Edited December 17, 20241 yr by FedDriver

35 minutes ago, FedDriver said:

Anyone person who praises MSFs landing gear strut compression must of completely forgot what xplane landing gear strut physics looks like.

.....

Imo theres a long way to go in regards to landing gear physics. They have extremely little bounce. The simulation of landing gear compression is no doubt simplistic. And the fact that so many plane developers fail to really simulate it well shows its definitely on Asobos end. But so little people ever point it out that I dont think Asobo will bother trying to improve upon it.

Well, X-Plane (or comparison to) is not the topic at hand here.. he is comparing to 2024 to 2020 and in this case not specifically about how the strut movements themselves are being modelled, but the overall aircraft behaviour when landing in crosswinds.

Overall from all what I'm experiencing and many others have on this thread, the ground handling physics and the ground<->air transition modelling in 2024 is night and day compared to 2020. That said, I don't know what if any improvements Asobo did *specifically* for gear/strut physics in 2024 as part of their ground handling revamp.
 

On 11/20/2024 at 7:20 AM, lwt1971 said:

And I guess the weather radar *finally* has tilt for the 3D cone so that's great and helps with the overall flying experience.

Also hearing that as promised the clouds density is better and the how the aircraft is impacted by more dangerous weather, turbulence and thermals, etc are also better than 2020.

Please report on the weather + flight dynamics interactions if possible too please 🙂 
 

One of my complaints or disappointments or characterize it however you want is the absence of weather data so that weather radar of the caliber that was possible with FSX but not with MSFS2020 can be developed.  I am talking about native weather data in MSFS2024 and not addons.  In the PMDG forum, there seems to be a suggestion that "As far as we know right now the camera system is not significantly changed and a weather radar will not be possible."  The link for this is below.  If the atmospherics in MSFS2024 are sufficiently improved so that turbulent atmosphere will feel as such instead of the current smooth flights regardless of the state of the atmosphere in MSFS2020, having weather radar becomes an absolute necessity.

Are you saying that weather data for the development of true weather radar is available in MSFS2024 ?  I think this is an important issue and I am interested in any feedback.

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/336001-16nov24-msfs2024-release-week-what-to-expect-from-pmdg/page2

5 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

V1 Simulations did a couple of flights in the new iniBuilds A300-600 "Premium Upgrade" edition.. given that it's one of the very few payware high fidelity airliners available currently making use of the 2024 FDE new/native capabilities, it's a good indication of what's capable in the new sim (of course we already have a good hint based on the default birds given the numerous positive reports so far).

Both of the below scenarios are him hand flying and landing in crosswind situations... some of his quotes/findings:

https://youtu.be/Kca-Uf0iWkE?t=8527
"like I said before, leaps and bounds ahead of what we had in 2020 in terms of physics"
"this airplane might be one of the better ones I've flown in the sim for crosswind handling, pretty much spot on"
"this flight model is feeling pretty dang good"
"this a300, did not expect it to handle as well as it has been handling"

https://youtu.be/qd7GfMEoHLM?t=10072
"20 knot direct crosswind, watch me decrab, watch what happens to the struts, airplane is gonna want to weathervane a little bit of the left, i'm going to maintain center line with right rudder, the right gear compresses more than the left as it should"
"that's really good crosswind physics there, one of the best I've seen in the sim so far"
"because normally in 2020 after touchdown it will be an immediate no inertial just ice skate into the wind effect"
 

Thanks - I was looking for news on this addon's specific FM/handling improvements.

On one hand, it's "only" $60. But on the other hand, I've got LOTS of "only $xy" add-ons already...

Decisions, decisions...

 

3 hours ago, zachlog said:

Are you saying that weather data for the development of true weather radar is available in MSFS2024 ?  I think this is an important issue and I am interested in any feedback.

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/336001-16nov24-msfs2024-release-week-what-to-expect-from-pmdg/page2

Hmm not sure if the areas of the SDK and software framework(s) PMDG is using makes it impossible for them to use the core sim weather radar, or if Mathijs wasn't aware of the new features when he wrote that.

But I was talking about the default weather radar which in 2020 was a fixed 3D code (pointed straight forward), and now in 2024 it is tiltable, making it much more useful. The weather data is/was always there.

For example, in the default aircraft manuals at https://www.flightsimulator.com/aircraft-manuals/, the A330 manual on page 50 speaks about it:
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://flightsimulator.azureedge.net/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/Airbus-A330-MSFS-Manual.pdf
5) Tilt knob
This knob adjusts the tilt of the radar. Zero indicates the horizon reference
 

5 hours ago, zachlog said:

Are you saying that weather data for the development of true weather radar is available in MSFS2024 ?

no where in their post did they imply that