25 minutes ago, andy1252 said:

see you've both quoted 1.4 Tb as a download figure for 2024

Hey Andy, I don't know actual figures my quote is a requote. If the aircraft and missions (zero data just pointers /scripts surely?) is 1.4tb that's not very well optimised for sure. I think 2020 ac is in the region of 200gb? 

Personally I don't need every brick in the world rendered individually. Having said that 1.4tb is nothing these days except if you're on console which I suspect is the only reason for the stream debacle. 

35 minutes ago, andy1252 said:

And this is for, what? All the executable, actual sim code presumably?

Everything that was downloadable before. Excluding the underlying world data that was alreaedy only streamable before (DEM and Image, as well as autogen). So all the handcrafted airports, poi's from all the world updates, all aircraft, missions etc. 

This is the reason why they went full cloud. The sim with its ever growing library of world updates and aircraft simply got too big. It takes forever to download this stuff, and it clogs up disk space like nothing ever before.

 

The recommendated approach now is to set a rolling cache of around 100Gigabyte. This will make sure that the aircraft you use the most and the parts of the world you fly in the most load up fast and reliable. 

And it does work. My inital load into the sim is about 2:30 minutes and going from the word map into the flight itself takes 30 seconds maximum. (If I have used area and aircraft before. If not it can take up to 2 minutes again)

Edited December 6, 20241 yr by Farlis

1 hour ago, sloppysmusic said:

If 1.4tb would take all night to download and install basic sim data to run the ummm sim then how on earth can streaming the same data live be any faster? 

Because it streams only your immidiate vicinity. If you load into CDG it won't load the whole of France.

10 minutes ago, Farlis said:

Because it streams only your immidiate vicinity. If you load into CDG it won't load the whole of France.

Not the 1.tb we are talking about. You're talking about scenery surely? We're talking about a base sim install with ac and base sim data.

4 minutes ago, sloppysmusic said:

Not the 1.tb we are talking about. You're talking about scenery surely? We're talking about a base sim install with ac and base sim data.

But what is base sim data? Asobo considers ALL World Updates including ALL handcrafted airports and ALL aircraft as base sim. That is the 1.4TB.

 

The actual base core exectuables without any of that is that what is on your disk right now.

Edited December 6, 20241 yr by Farlis

7 minutes ago, Farlis said:

But what is base sim data? Asobo considers ALL World Updates including ALL handcrafted airports and ALL aircraft as base sim. That is the 1.4TB.

 

The actual base core exectuables without any of that is that what is on your disk right now.

Yes to what you said lol! Everything they installed on your disc in 2020 was put there for a REASON. So all that on HD too for 2024 so they can concentrate on streaming the Bing maps ONLY/photogammetry which should be theoretically similar for everyone making testing and optimisation much easier. 

3 minutes ago, sloppysmusic said:

Yes to what you said lol! Everything they installed on your disc in 2020 was put there for a REASON. So all that on HD too for 2024 so they can concentrate on streaming the Bing maps ONLY/photogammetry which should be theoretically similar for everyone making testing and optimisation much easier. 

But it makes loading times much longer because of the architecture behind it. Right now MS2024 only loads and streams what is necesarry instead of you cluttering your harddrive with stuff you never use. 

What do I need the Carribean World Update of 12 Gig installed if I never fly there? And in case I do, it is now simply streamed instead of me having to spend time downloading and installing it completely.

Interesting. My simpc is not switched on right at the moment so I can't check for sure, but I know my 2020 "official" folder is something like around 380 GB. I had a lot of stuff not installed, but it was all just things like missions, training etc. Maybe a dozen of the handcrafted airports uninstalled as I had payware versions instead, but all the aircraft and all the world updates were in there.

And yet I find my loading times, both of the initial sim and the subsequent free flight, are considerably faster in 2024 than 2020. Starting up 2020 always means going a doing something else for a few minutes, likewise loading up a flight. But 2024 really does take a fraction of the time. Which would imply it really is very efficient and selective about what gets streamed via 2024, rather more so than what gets pulled off the drive in 2020.

My net connection is fibre to the door Gb, internal Cat 6 ethernet, and my drives are NVME ssd, so I'm probably about as good as I can get in both areas. I don't run local cache in 2020 and haven't changed the settings in 2024. I have 64 Gb ram and a 3090 with 24Gb vram. Certainly from my experience, streaming has so far shown to be a lot better than I was expecting (once the initial furore died down) and I'm less worried about the implications for the future.

5 minutes ago, andy1252 said:

my loading times, both of the initial sim and the subsequent free flight, are considerably faster in 2024 than 2020

If Asobe wanted to they could reverse that situation. 

If they wanted to. 

5 minutes ago, sloppysmusic said:

If Asobe wanted to they could reverse that situation. 

If they wanted to. 

I'm sure they could, and would be delighted if they did. Not advocating one over the other, just posting my observations on my system. Truth is we don't really have any choice, and I suspect quite low impact, over how things will proceed in the future.

S'all Goodman

7 hours ago, MadDog said:

Are you saying that frame gen is now available with the new AMD drivers?  If so, how do you enable it?

Update your drivers to the latest one. Allow it to scan for the games on your system MSFS2024 will now be detected. Within the MSFS2024 game profile you will most likely see the option to enable fluid motion frames.

I would also recommend enabling radeon chill so your GPU has a framerate lock as well.

When you start up the sim in fullscreen mode the drivers will auto detect the sim and do its thing.

 

Sorry ladies and gents..

back to topic.

Edited December 6, 20241 yr by Maxis

5 hours ago, sloppysmusic said:

Having said that 1.4tb is nothing these days except if you're on console which I suspect is the only reason for the stream debacle. 

Seb said, that the 1.4T are what just the Standard Edition of 2020 would have downloaded when launched the first time. What you are overlooking are the world updates. This 1.4T is basically the full sim with all packages that are included in Standard Edition. It can't be less. It is content you paid with your 60$´. Fine if you are willing to spend that storage out of your pocket. But asking that from every other user is selfish, when a typical storage intense PC game has <200GB and MSFS2024 would break the today record by factor 2-3: The Biggest PC Games By File Size

Regarding whether this is "only reason for the stream debacle" let me remind you once more about the advantages of the MSFS2024 architecture:

- Installation time 20 minutes vs 25 hours. With the 2020 architecture, the sim would have launched Nov 19 but not a single user would have taken off to his first flight at the same day anymore. Basically, Asobo has fixed the CDN issues quicker than most users would have downloaded their base installation.

- You have all world updates from the first minute without any manual step by the user.

- The user gets updates for each package without any manual step (remember how in 2020, everybody at least once complaint: I don't see the new world update! Standard response: you need to install it in content manager!)

- Avoids dead data. During my entire career in MSFS 2020, probably 80% of the installed data was not accessed a single time, because I simply did not go there. In MSFS 2024, I and MS spare the effort and bandwith to mess with that data (I because I never download it and MS because they can spare the bandwidth too).

- Data is just downloaded as needed. Significantly reduced bandwith overall.

- Payware addons (MP) are available instantly without any manual step by the user.

- Keeping track of the latest version of every addon is greatly simplified (user efforts actually become zero). <- This is significant, because I am pretty sure, that of all my payware addons which ship via other channels, I am most of the time missing the newest updates because keeping the overview is tiresome.

- Seb mentioned, that the inbuilt cache could also be considered as an intelligent and automatic download manager, because if you set it large enough (which users like you should do because you voted to store even the entire 1.4T locally), it will basically download and locally store the data for your entire sim experience automatically if you just fly in your typical area, on your prefered routes with your prefered addons. After a while, the incremental package downloads during every sim session will become smaller and smaller.

 

Besides, if you are not interested in all of that, you will be free to opt-in an provide your own storage and manage everything by yourself.

 

4 hours ago, sloppysmusic said:

If Asobe wanted to they could reverse that situation. 

Why would they want? The old situation is not beneficial for them and also not for most of the users. I see no good reasons why the 2020 architecture would be great for everybody. Its like taking your own chair to the restaurant (cuz "chairs are so cheap nowadays...!").

Edited December 6, 20241 yr by fsiscool

11 hours ago, RobJC said:

People tried to say that the tech alpha wasn't the finished product (evidently it was)

The tech alpha wasn't the finished product. It was a missing a ton of features.

Edited December 6, 20241 yr by Tuskin38

22 minutes ago, fsiscool said:

Besides, if you are not interested in all of that, you will be free to opt-in an provide your own storage and manage everything by yourself.

Could you provide a link with detailed tech info for that?

Thanks for detailed reply but I detect (!) a somewhat loaded bias in making every one of those statements into a positive, when they could just as easily be turned into negatives ( I won't as that's like hitting someone with a hammer over and over).

You have taken a rightly controversial strategy and removed all nuance replacing it with pure sales talk, excellently worded as well. If I had not spent ten years in IT I would swallow it hook line and sinker.

When someone makes a number of points without once stating "on the other hand" you KNOW there is more to the story. 

I'll hold back my hammering unless requested lol, there's plenty of others doing that.

5 minutes ago, sloppysmusic said:

Could you provide a link with detailed tech info for that?

Thanks for detailed reply but I detect (!) a somewhat loaded bias in making every one of those statements into a positive, when they could just as easily be turned into negatives ( I won't as that's like hitting someone with a hammer over and over).

You have taken a rightly controversial strategy and removed all nuance replacing it with pure sales talk, excellently worded as well. If I had not spent ten years in IT I would swallow it hook line and sinker.

When someone makes a number of points without once stating "on the other hand" you KNOW there is more to the story. 

I'll hold back my hammering unless requested lol, there's plenty of others doing that.

Well he basically just summarized everything Seb said in the Developer Q&A.