4 hours ago, Fielder said:

All the scenery, sim load times, flight load times for me have always been way faster than 2020. Every single time that I've flown. And I don't have stutters in flight. FPS is lower than 2020 but still from 50 to 80 with zero issues.

You are so bright at any point! Where are you located just curious?

Edited December 6, 20241 yr by Vitold69

4 hours ago, Maxis said:

On a side note the Radeon drivers needed to detect MSFS 2024 in order to enable frame gen on the AMD side got released today.. So thats one of my non starters fixed.

Are you saying that frame gen is now available with the new AMD drivers?  If so, how do you enable it?

On 12/4/2024 at 9:18 PM, RichieFly said:

Or maybe they're shagged out from working 20hr days trying to get things sorted.

Aren't they in France? French labour laws are generous and most workers are insistent on their rights: short working hours, long holiday, hard to fire, etc. I suspect this is one of the big cultural differences that helps explain why they - sometimes - can't seem to get their act together. If (it's a big if) they really have 800 people working on the sim, that might be the equivalent of c200 people in the States from a productivity point of view. 

Edited December 6, 20241 yr by tfm

4 hours ago, RobJC said:

People tried to say that the tech alpha wasn't the finished product (evidently it was),

And another question: after seeing the tech alpha and concluding very confidently that, no, this is not just an alpha, this is the finished product, and that Asobo were lying and the pre launch event problems weren't just a router but further evidence that the sim was rubbish, why on earth did you buy it?! I just can't fathom why anyone who thought they had concrete proof it would be a mess, a disaster, would then go and buy it anyway.

Do you really believe what you're saying...?

Edited December 6, 20241 yr by scotchegg

21 minutes ago, scotchegg said:

(...) why on earth did you buy it?! I just can't fathom why anyone who thought they had concrete proof it would be a mess, a disaster, would then go and buy it anyway.

This is something I will never understand, especially with MS Flight Simulator.

We are all adults here, nobody is forced to buy a product right on day one (or even preorder it) especially knowing the state that MSFS 2020 was in at launch (which was considerably worse than 2024, I would argue).

There was zero incentive to preorder MSFS 2024, it was entirely possible to wait until a few days after launch and then make an informed decision whether the sim in its current state would be fun to use or not.

Sure, one can always make an argument about the practices of the gaming industry throwing unfinished products on the market and then taking a year to get them into an acceptable state, but that's not exclusive to MSFS, and frankly should be expected at this point when making the decision to buy a particular game.

Edited December 6, 20241 yr by Der Zeitgeist

1 hour ago, tfm said:

Aren't they in France? French labour laws are generous and most workers are insistent on their rights: short working hours, long holiday, hard to fire, etc. I suspect this is one of the big cultural differences that helps explain why they - sometimes - can't seem to get their act together. If (it's a big if) they really have 800 people working on the sim, that might be the equivalent of c200 people in the States from a productivity point of view. 

Just stop French bashing please (as some readers here are French...). Fortunately for the American people, there are still US workers who are struggling to protect their rights and French companies to sell their products such as aircrafts, even in the US !

Edited December 6, 20241 yr by danhenri

3 hours ago, Vitold69 said:

You are so bright at any point! Where are you located just curious?

Western USA.

1 hour ago, tfm said:

can't seem to get their act together.

because as we've seen, americans with their amazing labour laws have produced perfect working games, time after time after time. Honestly what even is this point trying to convey?

It's pretty obvious this was a situation of bean counters trying to generate quarterly sales in the coming holiday season. Not a fault of the developers, "working too little". This has been shown without fail every single time a game is rushed, then a year later the game is in state that it should've been. However that doesn't look good to shareholders, only customers and for a openly-traded company, realistically, shareholders are the actual customers.

8 hours ago, Farlis said:

Seb gave the example that if one were to download all the packages of MS2024, which is all the aircraft, bespoke aircraft, poi, mission, etc it would not only take 1.4TB but 25 hours to do so

I don't know where to start with this in 2024...

Ok..

1) The argument that if something is too big by far to put on today's ultra fast and large local storage so it has to be streamed LIVE instead is just insane. Asylum level nuts. "You can't possibly store every issue of your favorite newspaper from the 20th century at your house so you can read them quickly and easily whenever you want. So that's why we chose to deliver them via cycle courier." 😳

2) Drum roll.... Ever heard of the boxed software package with USB sticks included? Like Windows itself and other professional packages used to use for the base install plus initial data dump?

" oh my we can't possibly trust you with a physical copy of what you paid for! That would lead to you imagine you actually OWNED it after we spent 10 years getting you used to the idea you don't own anything but the temporary right to use it at our discretion. We paid lawyers millions to get to this stage heck no to going back on that idea sorry! "

3) If 1.4tb would take all night to download and install basic sim data to run the ummm sim then how on earth can streaming the same data live be any faster? 

My (and thousands of others) conclusion is that combining what could be the game with the biggest by far content size in software history with a streaming live ONLY strategy (that's an insult to the word sorry) at LAUNCH is absolutely god tier hubris. 

1 hour ago, tfm said:

Aren't they in France? French labour laws are generous and most workers are insistent on their rights: short working hours, long holiday, hard to fire, etc. I suspect this is one of the big cultural differences that helps explain why they - sometimes - can't seem to get their act together. If (it's a big if) they really have 800 people working on the sim, that might be the equivalent of c200 people in the States from a productivity point of view. 

800 isn't all Asobo though, they have 175ish according to Jorg a few months back.

On 12/4/2024 at 7:28 PM, MarcG said:

Yep his face paints the picture, lovely of him to properly apologise for the launch/CDN issues which is appreciated, however he now clearly understands the actually sim is a mess with far too many issues, you can tell that in his face.

Are we all supposed to know what CDN stands for? Or is it another example of the 'elect' using obscure and unexplained jargon to demonstrate their aloofness from the 'non-elect'. (By which I mean corporate Big Simulation, not MarkG!)

11 minutes ago, Petraeus said:

Are we all supposed to know what CDN stands for? Or is it another example of the 'elect' using obscure and unexplained jargon to demonstrate their aloofness from the 'non-elect'. (By which I mean corporate Big Simulation, not MarkG!)

Yeah it was a bit jargon filled but the pictures of graphs told the story they were telling.

@Farlis or @sloppysmusic, a question. I see you've both quoted 1.4 Tb as a download figure for 2024. I haven't watched the live stream thing as I tend to find such things a bit like hard work, so is this an actual figure mentioned there? And this is for, what? All the executable, actual sim code presumably? Reason I ask is just for my own understanding of the system. I assume this wouldn't include any actual scenery, my understanding of that is that we're talking Petabytes when it comes to the underlying world scenery, and I certainly wouldn't expect to get much ground covered in just 1.4 Tb - my own addon scenery setup is bigger than that, and my addon aircraft folder set is almost that big.

Just curious.

49 minutes ago, Lucky38i said:

because as we've seen, americans with their amazing labour laws have produced perfect working games, time after time after time. Honestly what even is this point trying to convey?

It's pretty obvious this was a situation of bean counters trying to generate quarterly sales in the coming holiday season. Not a fault of the developers, "working too little". This has been shown without fail every single time a game is rushed, then a year later the game is in state that it should've been. However that doesn't look good to shareholders, only customers and for an openly-traded company, realistically, shareholders are the actual customers.

Haha yes I totally agree that it was sheer greed that drove this rushed release 🙂 my (limited) point is that Asobo do seem routinely to kinda shoot themselves in the foot with own goals, looking back at the various updates to v20 over the years, some of which (iirc) have been pretty half-baked and showing signs less of haste per se than of disorganisation. 

45 minutes ago, MarcG said:

800 isn't all Asobo though, they have 175ish according to Jorg a few months back.

Ah ok, I see. Maybe that makes it even harder to mobilise for fire-fighting duties 🙂