34 minutes ago, scotchegg said:

I haven’t seen the stream yet so I’ll just assume for the moment that you’re right and he did look despondent for an hour.

And, perspective differences aside, I find it very sad that you think the right way to get you want is to push people into despondency, and when you get that it gives you hope. That’s really not healthy for anybody.

Welcome to the real world.

14 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

As if there was any doubt they were on it.  Did you really think they weren't?

Seeing as there's still bugs in MSFS2020 from 3 years ago unfixed.... but there's little point having an opinion with you guys, whatever I say is "wrong" to you as you don't accept other people's opinions, so it's pointless debating anymore, have a nice day 

‘Upgrade’ to 4090 or 5090? I can't. I'm poor so I'll stay in the ‘2020’ for poor people....

Seriously, how can they say such a thing considering that MSFS also runs on the word not allowed console?

10 hours ago, jcomm said:

Greazer, give it time.

I have to confess that even being as critical as I usually am, FS 2024 even at it's present state pleases me already more than FS 2020 ever did...

I believe that people are more disappointed now because MSFS came after 14 years of nothing, and what it offered for the price was huge. 

FS2024 does not come from nothing. It comes from 4 years of development of the same engine and tech (let's not forget that MSFS was already streaming-based, only you did not download landing gears and aircraft wings before... /s). Coming from the development and enhancement of MSFS, people expected a solid stable base software and only improvements and new features. Instead, some of the new features do not work (see the missions/career, the airport chaos, the missing liveries and passengers boarding) and we see regressions in the base simulator as well (terrain loading, demented ATC, instability).

Having said that, just to explain what is in my opinion the reason of the outrage and the many negative reviews, I agree with you on the first sentence: I am confident that over time they will find the way to make it work, either by making the client "fatter", dedicating more bandwidth or with a "SU5 treatment" (let's hope not this).

Edited December 5, 20241 yr by MrFuzzy

1 hour ago, pmplayer said:

Yes, and this takes 2 years for shure, same at it was for MSFS2020 !!

cheers 😉

Yeah uh... Le'ts hope not but i do keep my hopes QUITE low.

52 minutes ago, MarcG said:

whatever I say is "wrong" to you as you don't accept other people's opinions

Disagreeing with others opinions is how we influence the world to take a balanced view.  I read your opinion and can either disagree or partly or fully change my own opinion in response.

You yourself have changed your opinion after seeing the latest video from the team apologising for the problems.  I didn't need to see that video to know it was being dealt with, and that is why I disagreed with the very negative attitude you had.

 

54 minutes ago, Juliett Alfa Romeo said:

I'm poor so I'll stay in the ‘2020’ for poor people....

If you can run 2020, you can run 2024.

I have hopes to jump in after SU2 in spring.

3 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

If you can run 2020, you can run 2024.

Yeah, I did not upgrade my setup for 2024, and I can get up to twice the FPS as 2020 in some scenarios

6 hours ago, scotchegg said:

Nope. The product needs a LOT of work, but even in its current state it’s great.

Yes, the launch, especially the first 12 hours, was a shambles and I don’t think anyone has ever denied that. My experience with it now is a world apart from my experience with it on the first day.

Edit: Just out of interest, what are your personal criteria to mark the product 'fixed'?

A lot of people argued the launch would be fine, and that those saying things looked dicey, were wrong. I said the sim was not ready for release, and Jorg confirmed it was awful. So let’s not move the goalposts. As far as being fixed, based on 2020 i am not sure there is such a definition. But i have a top line rig, 2.5Gbps connection, so with reasonable settings i expect a mostly stutter-free experience. I expect to be able to complete a flight without a CTD, at least the vast majority of the time. I expect all or most default planes to work relatively well. I expect to be able to complete the career portion of the game, without having it badly broken. Ultimately i want to be able to enjoy the game without worrying about crashes, losing settings, planes not functioning, stutters, low res graphics, connection warnings, having to redefine control settings over and over, etc. i can’t really make forward progress if it is 1 step forward, 3 steps back. 

18 minutes ago, RobJC said:

A lot of people argued the launch would be fine, and that those saying things looked dicey, were wrong. I said the sim was not ready for release, and Jorg confirmed it was awful. So let’s not move the goalposts. As far as being fixed, based on 2020 i am not sure there is such a definition. But i have a top line rig, 2.5Gbps connection, so with reasonable settings i expect a mostly stutter-free experience. I expect to be able to complete a flight without a CTD, at least the vast majority of the time. I expect all or most default planes to work relatively well. I expect to be able to complete the career portion of the game, without having it badly broken. Ultimately i want to be able to enjoy the game without worrying about crashes, losing settings, planes not functioning, stutters, low res graphics, connection warnings, having to redefine control settings over and over, etc. i can’t really make forward progress if it is 1 step forward, 3 steps back. 

So are you saying you were right, and a others that were critical of you for being concerned about the state of the sim at launch (and even one who posted laughing emoji's to try to ridicule), were wrong?  Amazing!  I never saw that coming.  

18 hours ago, Rimshot said:

In a respectful manner, which rarely happens when internet warriors join the party. Even in these forums it was suggested heads should roll, lol. Kind of sad actually.

So I was one who originally made a comment about heads rolling.  I just want to provide a bit of perspective.  My exact comment was "if this happened at my company heads would roll"  I know this set a lot of people off.  

I work in tech.  In fact 70-80% of all the WWW traffic in the world passes over our HW and SW.  If we had a global outage the WWW would literally stop routing traffic.   We are arguably the elephant in the room and our revenue is $58Bn per year so we are still a fraction of MS's.  We are also the (non compute)  HW in a lot of the Azure farms.  Our downtimes are measured in Severity and the launch would have been a Sev1.  All users impacted.  We tie that to a monetary figure for the length of the outage dependent upon the customer and their SLA's.  Same as MS.  Some of our customers calculate downtime down to the second and some are upwards of $1M per minute...  I have no idea how much revenue was lost in those first 48 hours after launch but trust me, someone at MS does... 

When I started in tech 30+ years ago there were concepts of loyalty.  I am 12 years with my current company, that is an eternity nowadays whereas when I was at IBM everyone was a lifer...  This year I witnessed 150,000 people in my industry get LR'd or made redundant.  I saw over 11,000 people at my company alone let go with no remorse.  Microsoft has laid off over 10,000 2,000 alone from their Activision Blizzard gaming divisions.  Sadly, people are just numbers at this point, the concept of loyalty is gone sadly.  I watched top performers let go, I saw Google laying people off while on maternity leave, I saw my own company wait for someone to be discharged from hospital to be let go 2 days later.

So when I make a comment that "had this happened at my company heads would roll" it does not mean I want people fired!!!! Not by any means.  Anytime a team has to do a Mea Culpa it's a negative that can take days, months or years to gain back customer confidence.  Let's also remember some of us were literally laughed at by certain users on these forums for predicting these hiccups with the release only because we have NEVER seen a FS release go smoothly LOL.  

So no, I do not "want people fired" or their lives impacted, not at all. It was more a commentary that in this day and age and in this industry as mistakes like this roll up the food chain sadly there is someone who ultimately takes the fall and it is usually a PM, TME, etc.  No one is deemed irreplaceable anymore. 

Do I actually WANT anyone to lose their job, of course not!@!!  (well I take that back there are some people who should absolutely be fired LOL) Do I want to see MS2024 fail, OF COURSE NOT, that is the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.  I wish everyone on the MS/Asobo team nothing but the best and can't wait for the day my personal needs are met by 2024 and I fully transition.  For now I'm happy me needs are met by 2020.  

I truly apologize if I have been one of the over the top detractors but it comes from my own personal experiences and perspective.  At the same time, I find the generalization and name calling directed at those who are unhappy by people who are happy with the sim absolutely over the top.  Anytime you start using personal terms like tantrum, whiners, throwing toys out with the pram at anyone who dares criticize it just furthers the divide.  You can't lump everyone who is unhappy into a single group and dismiss them with insults.  Some people are happy, others are not, we all have the right to say so respectfully without being called names and as the point of this post highlights, a lot of times there is more to the post than just the words...  

So speaking for myself,  apologies again and I hope people have noticed a pivot in my behavior the past few days, I can only control myself but it would be "simply lovely" (credit to Max Verstappen) if we could all just be a little more tolerant and accepting of others opinions... Name calling in either direction should be a non starter. 

In my opinion once anyone starts calling people names the rest of your post is invalidated as the name calling supersedes everything else....  When you post about an individual opposed to what they've said it is crossing a line.  You can disagree with peoples opinions but you can't start name calling and going after the individual as a result.  This again goes both ways.  

Just my .02 which is worth less than leaves piling up in my yard right now.  

Hope everyone has a wonderful day and this provides a lot more clarity around my comment.  

Edited December 5, 20241 yr by psolk

To add some further speculation:

 

Where it went wrong we will never know, but the people responsible might also not.

I assume the following scenario: Jörg and Asobo genuinely underestimated how much traffic the release would create. That's on them, and probably a case of being too humble in the wrong moment.

 

But I also assume that the higher ups who look at the numbers and do calculations would not have approved a higher CDN count preemptively.

Because it is human nature in cost sensitive situations to react rather than to preempt. We see this yearly on a global scale when it comes to measures to prevent global warming or even just localized natural disasters. Preventive measures are expensive, and often yield only long term results that you don't actually see.

 

So in this case even if Jörg and Asobo had assessed the need for larger distribuition correctly, extrapolating demand correctly, I'm quite convinced that if Jörg had gone with these numbers to the accountants that greenlight expenses, they would have said: NO!

Because it is easier for humans to react to a bad situation and then seeing that spending money to end a catastrophe is inevitable, whereas spending money beforehand, preventing a bad launch like this is in the first place, is more likely to lead to that nagging feeling: "What were we worrying about? Nothing went wrong, money spent for nothing".

And then they will cut corners the next time.

That's all too human a reaction and probably what would have happened.

As someone who dodged that bullet because I didn't buy on release day I can only say to my fellow customers: Stop preordering digital products and stop expecting that games or software that relies on cloud distribution will work on release day. It probably won't because of all the expecting customers who can't wait to play it the minute it gets released and companies undercutting the distribution by timid spending on CDN.

So for the future. Just wait 2 days or a week. If you had done that with MSFS24, like I have, you would have had a much smoother experience.

Edited December 5, 20241 yr by Farlis

12 hours ago, Vitold69 said:

Say thanks to streaming and MS managers. BTW I'm absolutely sure the streaming was inpose by MS managers not Asobo.

Seb, who is the CEO of Asobo said streaming was a necessity from a technical standpoint and he gave very good reasons why

 

5 hours ago, Juliett Alfa Romeo said:

‘Upgrade’ to 4090 or 5090? I can't. I'm poor so I'll stay in the ‘2020’ for poor people....

Seriously, how can they say such a thing considering that MSFS also runs on the word not allowed console?

They never said such a thing. Seb simply spoke about what could cause a GPU with a small amount of Vram to struggle. I'm running 2024 better than 2020 with a 3070Ti.

I certainly hope their database for priority bugs is not solely based on there Bugs forum.