Just now, somiller said:

Question for the OP:

What is your monitor refresh rate (monitor setting, not msfs setting) and is your system capable of maintaining 117 fps and never dropping below that?

 

5 minutes ago, AnkH said:

Just be aware that if you have a 60Hz monitor, doing this "trick" results in a frame limit of 30FPS. If this is still enough for you, fine. There could also be other ways to achieve this btw. 

In my case, I could not get along with 30FPS anymore, even if they are super constant (=smooth). But I also do not have only 60Hz 😉 

Wouldn't turning on FG or Lossless Scaling FG get you back to a non-stuttering/hitching 60 or more?

5 minutes ago, somiller said:

I think a trip to Blur Busters is in order for you if you don't understand that a miss-match between fps and refresh causes stutters.

I do not need a trip to Blur Busters to understand that YOU are mixing up stutters with tearing and whatever. Do you really think that in the pre-Gsync age nobody got stutterfree gameplay? That only those had a stutter-free experience with EXACTLY the number of FPS that their monitor has? You cant be serious about this, right? If you have 100% constant 70FPS on a 120Hz monitor you have stutter-free experience. But you might suffer from screen-tearing. 

And limiting the FPS exactly 3 FPS below the Hz-Number of the monitor is even recommended by the site you tell I should go reading: https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/5/ So if the thread starter has a G-sync monitor, is 117FPS lock is perfectly fine...

7 minutes ago, AnkH said:

Just be aware that if you have a 60Hz monitor, doing this "trick" results in a frame limit of 30FPS. If this is still enough for you, fine. There could also be other ways to achieve this btw. 

In my case, I could not get along with 30FPS anymore, even if they are super constant (=smooth). But I also do not have only 60Hz 😉 

Does it? With Frame Gen your frame will be 60fps or more?

8 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Does it? With Frame Gen your frame will be 60fps or more?

Good question, it depends on if MSFS2024 calculates the 50% based on native or frame generated FPS. 

Sorry everyone for my delay with replying. Came down with a nasty head cold last night that has kept me in bed most of the morning. I'm just now getting around to reading everything.

To clarify a couple of my things. I'm currently using an LG C2 42" which has GSYNC; however, with 2020 I found that I was having more issues with it on than not. Others have also asked about why I'm running at 117fps, which one user pointed out (and was correct!) that I'm running it at 117 fps because the monitor is a 120Hz and I would have screen tearing until I lowered it a few fps - hence why I've set it at 117. Admittedly, I haven't turned GSYNC on with 2024 because after this, I really see no need.

Back to my original video and "find". I've read several users say that turning on the 50% refresh rate simply cuts your fps in half. Rivatuner would disagree and I feel confident I can tell the difference between 117 and 58 fps. To be perfectly honest, I'm not even worried about the fps and this video wasn't making a point to show off FPS improvement. It was instead meant to show how their dev FPS counter shows that I'm limited by the main thread and a constant red box based on the variables it's receiving from the sim - which funny enough, was the same time I received these micro-stutters and the overall feel of the sim felt less smooth. 

I also want to point out that one thing I found was that when reducing the refresh rate of the monitor even lower to 33%, the counter goes back to red - you'd think it would remain green by the simple fact that I'm lowering it even further.

With all of that said - this was just something I ran across when comparing systems with a friend and saw the change. There's no serious manipulation here and it's a pretty simple thing to test. I'd encourage anyone who is running a setup like mine with a 4090 and 13900k to see if you have any improvement. Whether your on GSYNC or not, maybe try it as well and see what your results are. I'd love to hear back from anyone that has given it a try and it looks like one person has seen the same benefits as posted on here.

 

Anything above 75 FPS is pretty pointless for the human brain/eye.  

What you want to look for is lowest FPS value and set your refresh rate to just below that to ensure fluidity in your flight scenarios.  Personally I would avoid Gsync/Freesync as what you want is consistency in timeframe (it’s the consistency that provides for the sense of fluidity).

If you can obtain 16ms timeframe consistency for duration of approach in your most difficult scenario (say London City airport, in complex aircraft, in bad weather, lots of AI traffic), then set your refresh rate to 60Hz Vsync on.

 

Edited December 5, 20241 yr by CO2Neutral

27 minutes ago, AnkH said:

Good question, it depends on if MSFS2024 calculates the 50% based on native or frame generated FPS. 

Whatever...with this simple fix my sim is as smooth as silk. May even start bumping up some settings. Before it wasn't right. Screen tearing and stutters especially on the ground. EDIT. I only have a 70hz monitor so this may be the reason for this miracle?

Edited December 5, 20241 yr by jarmstro

42 minutes ago, CO2Neutral said:

Anything above 75 FPS is pretty pointless for the human brain/eye.  

 

Oh no, not again this urban myth please. Plenty of resources available that proof you wrong...

2 hours ago, AnkH said:

Just be aware that if you have a 60Hz monitor, doing this "trick" results in a frame limit of 30FPS. If this is still enough for you, fine. There could also be other ways to achieve this btw. 

In my case, I could not get along with 30FPS anymore, even if they are super constant (=smooth). But I also do not have only 60Hz 😉 

Indeed 30 fps is really painful after experiencing 50, 60, 70 fps or higher. At high fps panning with TrackIR is very smooth until MSFS decides to load a chunk of scenery and my meager CPU and memory choke momentarily. With my outdated CPU, and MSFS settings I prefer, I'm limited to about 20-25 fps, until I turn on Loss Less Scaling and then I can get up in the 70's or so almost everywhere and with meaningful traffic. Adding DynamicLoad allows my system to maintain very consistent fps, and with Gsync it doesn't matter where I set the fps limit as the monitor will automatically match fps with refresh - no vsync monkey business required.

1 hour ago, AnkH said:

Oh no, not again this urban myth please. Plenty of resources available that proof you wrong...

Heh, I am surprised that hogwash is still being perpetuated these days. I also like how the number changes every single time; 90, 75, 60, 24 or whatever else is at hand. 

7 minutes ago, Sethos said:

I also like how the number changes every single time; 90, 75, 60, 24 or whatever else is at hand. 

Haha, was exactly my thoughts, some years ago it was 25FPS because, you know, movies also do not have more FPS 🤣

Best way to analyze your performance is to use MSI Afterburner + RivaTuner with frametime graph on.

If you see ANY deviations (i.e. spikes) from a flat line, you have stutters.

For 60Hz you'll want to see a flat 16.6ms line.

If either GPU or CPU is bottlenecking, i.e. reaching 100%, you'll get stutters. You DON'T want to max out anything. Always leave some headroom.

For a 60Hz monitor, your best bet is to use Vsync. You'll feel some input lag, but that's not a dealbreaker for flightsimming.

I'm a die hard TrackIR user and need a steady 60fps for ultimate smoothness. My older TrackIR v4 actually only works perfectly at exactly 60fps.

So with my 144Hz Gsync monitor I use RivaTuner's frame limiter set at 60, with my monitor always at the default 144Hz. Gsync on. Ultra low latency enabled.  Power management = prefer maximum performance.

For lowest latency I use "front edge sync" in RivaTuners frame limiter settings.

MSFS2020 performs flawlessly like this for me.

Edited December 5, 20241 yr by neumanix

Just tried this and not surprised that it does nothing on my end. Having 65-80 FPS, VRAM hammered and stutters, no matter if I have it set to 50% or 100%. I will try 33% next time and if this works, then it is obvious that it somehow limits the FPS to 1/3 before frame generation. I have a 144Hz monitor and 50% (or 72FPS) is just at the edge of what my rig is capable of, this is imho the reason it does not eliminate the stuttering on my end.

23 hours ago, Keirtt said:

*I'm not claiming this is a super fix - just trying to see if anyone else sees the same improvement.

So this one threw me off and I'll preface this by saying that I'm still not sold on 2024, but this changed my experience considerably and I'm trying to determine if I'm misunderstanding something or it's a bug. A good friend of mine has a very similar hardware setup and I couldn't figure out why I would see micro-stutters and the overall smoothness of the sim didn't match his setup. I went through all of the settings and we were nearly identical except one thing. In his sim under the graphics settings, he had monitor refresh rate set for 50% while mine was set at 100%. Oddly enough, I couldn't change this value and didn't think anything of it since I had my Nvidia control panel limiting the sim to 117fps anyways.

I pulled up the dev console and turned on the fps counter and noticed I was limited by main thread like him, but mine was in the "red" and his was a steady green. I also noticed in my sim, I couldn't change the monitor refresh rate setting and it was simply grayed out. I found out though by turning off frame generation this option would become available to me and I could adjust it down to 50% - and just like that, performance instantly improved, micro stutters gone, and now I have the green window. I went back into the settings and turned off frame generation again and turned it back to 100%, turned frame generation back on and it was back to red again. Even weirder, if I dropped the monitor refresh rate to 33% as the lowest option, it reverted back to red again.

If that didn't make any sense, here's the simple solution, TLDR:

(Defaults to 100%)
Frame Gen Off > Change Monitor Refresh Rate to 50% > Turn frame gen back on - Debug FPS console is now green
Frame Gen Off > Change Monitor Refresh Rate  to 100% > Turn frame gen back on - Debug FPS console is now red
Frame Gen Off > Change Monitor Refresh Rate to 33% > Turn frame gen back on - Debug FPS console is now red

So I'm not sure why this is and why changing it to 50% improved my performance when my fps are the same. Either way, I made a short video showing this. You can't see the same micro-stutters in this video very well, but I could visualize them very well when that counter was in the red. Transitioning views is when it was the most obvious. Curious if anyone else with similar hardware who has had performance issues can test this?

 

Very nice find indeed.

In 2020, even with frame gen on, you can still change the monitor refresh rate. In 2024 it is greyed out and inaccessible. But the setting remains as to what it was set to last, and has an effect, as you have demonstrated here. If I'm not mistaken, in 2024 with frame gen on, V-sync also becomes inaccessible. These have to be oversights I think. But, yes- good find!