6 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Have you tried capping at 30 FPS just as an experiment and using frame gen X3?

Wilco, but do you think the behavior indicates something underlying at the OS or possibly sim layer is the root cause? 

Summary of changes:

- NVCP FPS Limit 30
- LLS App ON (LFSG 3, X3)
- Reenabled ProcessLasso (MSFS affinity = High) and ParkControl

Right out of the gate the frametime is stuck hard around ~30ms. FPS does not drop below the 30 cap. There is very noticeable input lag however. Overall the performance with LLS in this config is not playable. 

Video if it's helpful for watching the hardware values, but snip tool's format means the FPS shown is equivalent to a GameBoy. It also didn't cap the LLS frame readout. It was sat at 30 / 90. 

 

sudo nymn,

You mention flickering - try switching to Lossless ver. 2.3 with all other settings the same and see if it makes a difference. I experience flickering with ver. 3.0, especially apparent in blue sky, but if I switch to ver. 2.3 no flickering. Unfortunately 2.3 is not as performant and exhibits more artifacts than 3.0. As far as fluid performance it is flawless in both versions but 3.0 being less taxing I see fewer instances of system strain with 3.0. It's just the darned flickering that keeps me from using it 100% of the time.

My setup: Hardware Gsync on - windowed and full screen in NVCP; VRR on in Lossless, Vsync OFF everywhere. Ive tried every combination of settings in Lossless but I'm unable to get rid of the flickering in 3.0. I haven't tried Gsync off because I will NOT accept that and will instead fall back to 2.3.

9 minutes ago, somiller said:

I experience flickering with ver. 3.0, especially apparent in blue sky,

Yeah that a strobing effect, rather than flickering. I've noticed that too at X3, but not so much at X2. 

This is 2020 with x2 and no flickering...

 

56 minutes ago, somiller said:

sudo nymn,

You mention flickering - try switching to Lossless ver. 2.3 with all other settings the same and see if it makes a difference. I experience flickering with ver. 3.0, especially apparent in blue sky, but if I switch to ver. 2.3 no flickering. Unfortunately 2.3 is not as performant and exhibits more artifacts than 3.0. As far as fluid performance it is flawless in both versions but 3.0 being less taxing I see fewer instances of system strain with 3.0. It's just the darned flickering that keeps me from using it 100% of the time.

My setup: Hardware Gsync on - windowed and full screen in NVCP; VRR on in Lossless, Vsync OFF everywhere. Ive tried every combination of settings in Lossless but I'm unable to get rid of the flickering in 3.0. I haven't tried Gsync off because I will NOT accept that and will instead fall back to 2.3.

The strobing in dark scenarios is a hard limitation of my OLED with VRR. I have no choice but to use a fixed refresh rate with my hardware.

Any ideas here @Ianrivaldosmith? At the moment the only config somewhat playable is capping FR at 115 and binning LLS. I've been to the ends of the internet on this over the last two months and I'm at a loss here. 

 

17 minutes ago, sudo nymn said:

Any ideas here @Ianrivaldosmith? At the moment the only config somewhat playable is capping FR at 115 and binning LLS. I've been to the ends of the internet on this over the last two months and I'm at a loss here. 

Do you have the same issues using the built-in frame generation within MSFS? 

VRR flickering is different to the strobing effect caused by LLS. VRR flickering affects OLED monitors/TV's when the scene is dark and the frame rate is below 70FPS/HZ or the frame time is all over the place. Each OLED has significant flickering in dark content when gaming with unstable frame rates.

2 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Do you have the same issues using the built-in frame generation within MSFS? 

VRR flickering is different to the strobing effect caused by LLS. VRR flickering affects OLED monitors/TV's when the scene is dark and the frame rate is below 70FPS/HZ or the frame time is all over the place. Each OLED has significant flickering in dark content when gaming with unstable frame rates.

To be clear I don't have any issues with strobing/flickering related to using to LLS. The catch 22 I am in is:

VRR enabled | No LLS (native FG w/ 3.8.1 DLL, DLSS set to Quality): FS2020 is perfect, no issues with tearing. The OLED dark scene flickering happens due to VRR limitation.

VRR disabled | Using LLS x3 w/ FR capped at 30 (or 38): FS2020 has a noticeable amount of input lag and performance overall is unplayable. This is the video above.

VRR disabled | Native FG capped at 115 FPS: FS2020 is overall playable, but very noticeable screen tearing especially in high CPU load scenarios.

Just for reference I have 65 in 120hz sony display. Using 2.13.2 and RTSS cap at 38 DX11 LS3.0 X2 Vsync in game off. Getting 70FPS in game and is smoooooth. No lock ups. BTW 2024 is hit or miss for me as far as lock ups.

Edited January 23, 20251 yr by cchiozza

1 hour ago, sudo nymn said:

To be clear I don't have any issues with strobing/flickering related to using to LLS. The catch 22 I am in is:

VRR enabled | No LLS (native FG w/ 3.8.1 DLL, DLSS set to Quality): FS2020 is perfect, no issues with tearing. The OLED dark scene flickering happens due to VRR limitation.

VRR disabled | Using LLS x3 w/ FR capped at 30 (or 38): FS2020 has a noticeable amount of input lag and performance overall is unplayable. This is the video above.

VRR disabled | Native FG capped at 115 FPS: FS2020 is overall playable, but very noticeable screen tearing especially in high CPU load scenarios.

Any reason VRR is disabled when using LLS? 

15 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Any reason VRR is disabled when using LLS? 

VRR is hard disabled because of the OLED dark scene flickering. It's not FS2020-specific and there is no tolerable option other than disabling it or returning the panel. 

 

For now treating it like a non G-sync monitor works really well with initial testing...

(ref my OP for the rest of the settings)

Monitor: Game mode ON, VRR & G-Sync OFF, ALLM OFF

NVCP: No FPS limit, V-Sync ON (G-Sync is disabled at the hardware layer)

RSSS: (imgur) In FlightSimulator.exe config set FPS limit at 119.9963 (final RR from testufo/rr after fixing it), FR limiter NVIDIA reflex, inject reflex markers, rest defaults.

FS2020: (imgur) Only change was turning SecondaryScaling back to 1.500000 

You can see in this cap (again, the snip tool's limiting capture to potato) the FR is solid and in-game performance is smooth so far. I haven't put this config under any real CPU load yet, but at that point I am hopefully down to just tuning the simulator layer.  

https://youtu.be/Peph5FQqDXM

45 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Any reason VRR is disabled when using LLS? 

So I have one for you...  As you can see in my video at higher loads the impact of Lossless is huge and provides smooth as butter performance.  My issue is actually the opposite, when at Altitude with no front side FPS limit or VSync I am seeing 82/120 in terms of FPS and Lossless FPS.  That is actually causing "jitters" or what appear to be stutters.  

If I do try to lock the frames I notice the input lag.  Any thoughts, suggestions? 

15 minutes ago, psolk said:

That is actually causing "jitters" or what appear to be stutters.  

If I do try to lock the frames I notice the input lag.  Any thoughts, suggestions? 

You’re generating more frames than your monitor can display. So it’s causing uneven frame pacing, which looks like stuttering out of your side windows, especially close to the ground.

Did you set low latency mode to ultra in the nvidia control panel? In theory that should stop frames being generated past your refresh rate cap, although it didn’t for me. 

If your display is 120, lock frames at 58 and run 2X Frame gen, or lock them at 38 and run 3X frame gen. That’ll give you a little buffer zone too to avoid hitting the hz cap. 
 

RE the input lag, it’s always gonna be there with frame gen, you can try mitigate it by disabling V-Sync and locking at a higher frame rate when possible. Also try RTSS to locK the frame rate, and you can do it whilst the game is running too, to experiment. 
 

Also allow tearing in LLS. 
 

Also try this:-

In RTSS change the frame limiter mode from "async" to "Reflex" in the RTSS options.

Reflex Low Latency mode: Synchronizes the CPU and GPU to reduce latency

 

PS reflex 2 should help when it’s out in a few weeks 

Edited January 23, 20251 yr by Ianrivaldosmith

Thank you @Ianrivaldosmith!!  I thought that was what was happening, hence the 82 number.  Going to try your suggestions and report back! 

I will try low latency mode and 58x2  first!  Thank you!! 

2 minutes ago, psolk said:

Thank you @Ianrivaldosmith!!  I thought that was what was happening, hence the 82 number.  Going to try your suggestions and report back! 

I will try low latency mode and 58x2  first!  Thank you!! 

Try reflex too…