A350 iniBuilds - catastrophic release as never seen before

[SierraDelta]

31 minutes ago, mpo910 said:

Are you using 2024? Injected traffic? TCAS? Or maybe the in sim dynamic settings....?

Both 2020 and 2024, most flights have been in 2020. On almost all flights I have used PSXT with AIG models, showing TRAF / ID on both NDs - so, yes TCAS has been active. Not using the dynamic settings in 2024.

[Jude Bradley]

One crash with me on msfs2024 on version 1. No crashes since then. 

[Fiorentoni]

Isn't a WASM crash basically an unhandled exception? I mean having *any* unhandled exception in a released product is already a no go, let alone that many. I don't necessarily think it's incomptence by the devs, because they always do fix those in the end. It's more like the owners' attitude of "Who needs testing if we can just let our customers test? Release it!"

EDIT:

As a proof just two random thread titles over at their discord from the latest update:
"WASM crash when switching strobe light from ON to AUTO"
"WASM crash when enabling TCAS"

None of this is an "edge case" or anything that would be missed during testing...

Edited March 10 by Fiorentoni

[rjack1282]

With latest 1.0.2 update I had a WASM crash 100 NM prior to TOD while setting up for the arrival of a 9-hour long haul.  Fun stuff.  Guess I'll try again after the next update.

[sd_flyer]

I have completed three medium hauls flights (~4h) over weekend with patch 1.0.2. No crashes stutters or any other problem. 

[sd_flyer]

4 hours ago, mpo910 said:

 

Update 1.0.2 - every single time WASM freeze

 

How do you know it WASM freeze? You have debug window open while you loading? I believe there is general bug within 2024 itself. Sometime loading flight hangs indefinitely. In my experience usually happens with more complex airplane like airliners. Zooming-out maximum  "out of the earth" before starting flight is temporary solution at the moment that works for me 100%. Try it. 

[sd_flyer]

1 hour ago, Fiorentoni said:

Isn't a WASM crash basically an unhandled exception? I mean having *any* unhandled exception in a released product is already a no go, let alone that many. I don't necessarily think it's incomptence by the devs, because they always do fix those in the end. It's more like the owners' attitude of "Who needs testing if we can just let our customers test? Release it!"

Tell me more about handing exceptions! I'm all ears!

[LRBS]

3 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy this on release day. 

Wait 6 months or longer until the bugs are fixed. 

I didn't purchase this product, so I can't comment on it.  

I completely agree with your initial statement. 

However, I disagree with the new mentality that it's acceptable for a product to be launched with numerous bugs and that we should wait months post-release in the hope that the developer will rectify the issues, especially when we’ve paid full price. Unfortunately, some believe that customers should reward this kind of poor programming and inadequate quality control. 

[mpo910]

24 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

How do you know it WASM freeze? You have debug window open while you loading? I believe there is general bug within 2024 itself. Sometime loading flight hangs indefinitely. In my experience usually happens with more complex airplane like airliners. Zooming-out maximum  "out of the earth" before starting flight is temporary solution at the moment that works for me 100%. Try it. 

Because thats the feedback on posted issues from inibuilds themselves. You can read their feedback in their forums and they admit, that they solve (and are irritated) these issues and name them self wasm crahses. 

And yes, I could easely creat them with the DEBUG window open and trace them. But that is not my intention, I like to fly.

I myself, over at discord many others as well over at their own 2020 and 2024 Forum, am reporting and others are reporting dozens of WASM freezes....

Mainly they result in a complete freeze of controls, gauges and the flight comes to an end.....you need to restart the sim completely.

In MSFS2020 I mainly flew PMDG777 and FENIX, really rocksolid. My A350 first try was in that sim and 90% of my started flights getting plagued with freezing controls and gauges. Directly restarting and using PMDG, no issies, same flight, same airport and same time settings under same weather conditions (preset clear). Just to rule out the issue is my sim. 

No, it wasn´t. It was the A350.

I like the A350! And I do find it great they have put many efforts in it and released this plane with many options and feautures. I think inibuilds has come very far. But this one they really have messed up. I reflect myself, check my setup and also use the sim without any addon, besides the product I am testing. I even reinstalled MSFS2024 completely from scratch, as it is easy to do and still those issues occure.

I am sure, the main issue is the bad state of the product and the number of posts with similar issues is huge, just take a look and you will know, if you wish of course.

I think they did a great Job overall....but they need to test more! Because customers already mention often enough that inibuilds make great looking products....but bad performing, and also stuttering.....heavy on CPU/GPU as well. COmpared to others (flightbeam etc.).

I leave it as it is for now and I am sure they will sort this out. 

But I found it also appropriate to make myself clear over here and over at their own forums, and they did respond very professional (and I like that).

My voice is clear but repectful....I want a bettter quality assurance before they release something....thats why I posted there and here.

It happens way to often that software companies rely on the customers buy and (must) hold strategy. Testing becomes a "cost reducing" factor....that happens at a lot of companies. Just release it...and we will see......

Well....that may work for big names as META, GOOGLE, MS and co....

But not for smaller ones.....as customers are able to reject or hold off buying as there is some competition ongoing (not necessary a350 wise....but long haul wise there is).

Just my optinion.

THANKS TO EVERYONE reacting here. It helps me to get a better picture whats going on with the A350 🙂

 

[mpo910]

6 minutes ago, LRBS said:

However, I disagree with the new mentality that it's acceptable for a product to be launched with numerous bugs and that we should wait months post-release in the hope that the developer will rectify the issues, especially when we’ve paid full price. Unfortunately, some believe that customers should reward this kind of poor programming and inadequate quality control. 

Thats is exactly my point and why I am a bit irritated about this release.

Of course I do not always buy on day one and of course I am the only one who is "forcing myself"....no one else is able to 😉  

I find such feedback, "no one forced me to buy" not helpful, but the message behind this is clear and even understandable. It could be a strategy to NOT buy shortly after release....and IF enough people do that, the producer needs to reconsider his strategy....

But I did buy and also trusted IniBuilds, I assumed, they would deliver a decent product...not only feature rich (I find it feature rich, but mainly good tested and USABLE.

The hundreds of posts over at discord and their own forum are clear showing some quality issues for many users. I know, often only issues get posted, and the "happy customers" are flying and not complaining....thats fine for me.

Thats why I post, to get a clearer picture. And if this means more people seem happy and less seem having issues...then I am more confident that I can sort it more out on my end....

But that seems not to be the case.....So I stopped "testing", searching, reinstalling, deleting, setting up......I parked the product...and wait for the developper to deliver what I paid for.

My next inibuilds purchase will NOT be on the first weeks! Thats my verdict...... 🙂

I have enough to fly......so enough to be happy about

Marcus

[sd_flyer]

10 minutes ago, mpo910 said:

Because thats the feedback on posted issues from inibuilds themselves. You can read their feedback in their forums and they admit, that they solve (and are irritated) these issues and name them self wasm crahses. 

And yes, I could easely creat them with the DEBUG window open and trace them. But that is not my intention, I like to fly.

I myself, over at discord many others as well over at their own 2020 and 2024 Forum, am reporting and others are reporting dozens of WASM freezes....

Mainly they result in a complete freeze of controls, gauges and the flight comes to an end.....you need to restart the sim completely.

I🙂

 

I was in your shoes just one patch ago! I was trying to track where WASM crashes in 2024. But for some reason I couldn't find any crashes within WASM! Yet flight would hang indefinitely.  I figured it may something to do with 2024 itself rather than with inibuilds. SU1+patch 1.0.2 pretty much fixed all my issues except loading. As mentioned above I zoomout to the max before starting a flight and it does work! (even though it doesn't make sense to me why) LOL

[lwt1971]

41 minutes ago, LRBS said:

However, I disagree with the new mentality that it's acceptable for a product to be launched with numerous bugs and that we should wait months post-release in the hope that the developer will rectify the issues, especially when we’ve paid full price. Unfortunately, some believe that customers should reward this kind of poor programming and inadequate quality control. 

Such is the way in the current world of software... if a user buys blindly on release day and then complains about bugs then that's the user's problem IMO. If their tolerance for bugs is low, then they need to wait it out until the product in a state that's good enough for them, or just not get the product ever. If these folks with low tolerance for bugs are mad at other users who are willing to buy a product in the early days, well that's futile because users will do what they do 🤷‍♂️

Those who'd rather the developer had delayed the product to get it to a better state, well what's the difference from waiting until it gets more stable/usable?... being upset that it's already out and some are actually enjoying it is... silly. The market always speaks, and is the ultimate arbiter of what developers will do. I'm sure iniBuilds and other devs will guage from the market reaction as to their current release practices, and if they need to adjust future practices or not.
 

Edited March 10 by lwt1971

[mpo910]

31 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

if a user buys blindly on release day and then complains about bugs then that's the user's problem IMO

.....what is exactly the user problem? That he can´t use his product? Because thats the case for me at the moment (and many others)!

Of course that is my problem (user problem). But NOT my responsibilty. So I ad some pressure to the developer and raise attention and the next time I won´t buy on the first weeks If I ever buy from them a plane again.

Is that the developers interest (inibuilds is meant here)? Surely not! Because it harms them. I am sure that at some point they will see in their revenue what they have delivered for quality IF enough users act and respond.

I am not sitting here "at" my problem......I am solving mine with communication AND if needed with my buy or not buy strategy. 😉

And just to make myself clear:

I did NOT buy blindly, I did watch all the trailers, some streams before release and also "TRUSTED" a company who claimes to raise the bar, make outstanding products and high quality planes!

When you buy a car, you are able to watch at it, drive a round and decide......and after you bought, you may encounter issues! Is that always your problem? Surely not because you bought a new car (aka new software product)...The deliverer IS still responsible.

I don´t buy such sentences like you stated here with Buying blind is a users problem. LOL

Edited March 10 by mpo910

[Simon_C]

I have to agree with OP completely.

OK, let's count:

- numerous crashes, when starting the sim, when closing the sim (actually hang), when starting the flight, in-flight (had, with 1.0.2 didn't crash yet) - which do NOT happen if I don't have A350 installed (and is the reason why I uninstalled it)

- GSX integration broken, mostly not working at all, and if it's working, then only some parts, and that only 50%... like load pax, but not load aircraft, open fuel port in flight

- parking brake frozen (as in, does not turn off, no matter if keybind or moving the switch in cockpit)

- screens just stop responding

- badly simulated taxiing (personal opinion, but there are others with same opinion)

- wavering on approach (extremely sensitive input OR aircraft reacts to inputs way too much, even with smoothing profile applied)

- issues with payload calculation, and errors where final fuel was not calculated correctly or not at all (I had some funny issues where fuel had shown me N<-N in the FMC)

And then all those forum posts, discord full of issues...

The fact is, not only is it riddled with bugs (which I could understand until the certina point, I have also 25 years of simming on my back), but:

These are not bugs. A bug is for me a non-obvious mistake, that happens only to a small subset of users, or better yet, to such small subset, that in normal testing period, it didn't appear. And that is what I just don't believe.

The issue here is that the release was rushed, they just wanted to release it, for financial or whatever other reasons, and it released not properly tested, with missing or not correctly working features. Easily called half-baked.

Same happened with MSFS 2024. And it still isn't in a state that it should have been released. Most likely with SU2, according to plans.

[Simon_C]

40 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

Such is the way in the current world of software... if a user buys blindly on release day and then complains about bugs then that's the user's problem.

You can't be serious.

Dude... we develop financial software for multi-billion companies, like car-industry, pharma, tobacco, etc... just for the reference, and I am no software dev, rather IT infrastructure for the whole shabam of stuff we have.

If we had that kind of position towards our development and customers, we would have closed eons ago. We do have test-versions, we do have test-environments, for each of our customers, and we let THEM choose whether they want to test it or not. And which version. Before going to production.

If the software is not finished, call it that, call it early access, call it beta, but be fair. With ini-A350-release, it was vice-versa. It was called complete. The greatest addon for MSFS ever or something along the lines.

I simply don't buy anymore into things like "ohhhh, sorry, we didn't know". Same story with MSFS2024. Sure they knew. It is a money-grab. The percentage of people who will do credit-card or Paypal-returns is most likely rather small. Reputation? Through the window.

Look at BATC. Working already so good. Yet, still early access.

Edited March 10 by Simon_C