10 minutes ago, GoranM said:

Well, there are cases, that men of age can act like teenagers when it comes to negative comments about the competing platform.  I won't mention names, but they give their age away in their forum signatures by stating when they started flight simming.  

I have no doubt that there are groups of young and some older adults that are far more immature than those of the past, simply due to their parents wanting to be their friend instead of acting like their parent. You see them in the workforce, the ones that need a safe space because their feelings were hurt. I think you'll also find that many come from the same individuals on multiple platforms. 

23 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Just ignore him, he normally turns it in to my sim is better than your sim rubbish because he can’t handle a difference of opinion.

I see you have a really hard time to handle different opinions too. Or do you think it is a good discussion culture, to ask anyone with whom you disagree to "give it a rest"?

39 minutes ago, GoranM said:

Why do people like you care so much about X-Plane's success (I consider a product that constantly makes a profit for 30 years, and has never had to shut down, a success), when you have no interest in using it?

I'm super happy to see XP's steady improvements but I've remained puzzled by the fact XP has so little of the entire market share compared to MSFS, especially when I view surveys like Navigraph's which is comprised of 23K people who could be said to fall into the category of at least committed hobby flight simmers like myself, the vast majority using PCs and flying airliners.  I know when I started this hobby 30y ago it was only lightweight GA that I flew for years then got on to airliners.  As FS is my main hobby outside of golf and music I'm all for any civilian flight sim to continue to improve as technology improves and that is why I care about XP's success.  At the moment MSFS 2020 continues to deliver very well and 2024 is catching up and *should* surpass so I believe that is the primary reason it garners the lion's share of all FS use.  Clearly superior ATC and flight dynamics (at least vis a vis 2020) were not nearly enough to grab giant share from MSFS.  When I early on naively shared images from 2020 on the XP forum I was immediately met with scoff and scorn because after all, what was portrayed in 2020 was not what mattered for the more seriously engaged according to several there providing the scoffing and scorn.  And yet, you see what's happened MSFS dominated hugely and still does.  The combination of a weak start for 2024 and XP's newer cloud depiction will certainly grab some market share, but it will have zero to do with what drove the scoff and scorn way back then--it will come largely down to graphics, be in on the ground and/or up in the air.  

On 4/16/2025 at 10:07 AM, Ianrivaldosmith said:

he normally turns it in to my sim is better than your sim rubbish

You're FOS with that comment, which clearly the irony in your comment is lost on you:  it's YOU who came into this thread over and over trying to make the case XP is better than MSFS and in your words the latter will go the way of Flight.  

41 minutes ago, Noel said:

I'm super happy to see XP's steady improvements but I've remained puzzled by the fact XP has so little of the entire market share compared to MSFS

Why?  The market is the market.  In a market of more than one platform, there will always be a front runner, but that doesn't negate its competition to the point of going out of business.  If it did, restaurants, aircraft manufacturers, Car manufacturers, just about every company that has variations of a product, would all yield to the market leader and shut down.  

There will always be competition, and it boggles the mind at why some people are so aggressive to a product they don't prefer.  Laminar are making a profit.  I can't speak for other developers, but I am making a great living making add ons.  

41 minutes ago, Noel said:

At the moment MSFS 2020 continues to deliver very well and 2024 is catching up and *should* surpass so I believe that is the primary reason it garners the lion's share of all FS use.

And no one will disagree with you on that.  It's just that for many of us, X-Plane gives us what MSFS doesn't.

41 minutes ago, Noel said:

Clearly superior ATC and flight dynamics (at least vis a vis 2020) were not nearly enough to grab giant share from MSFS.

This is just my opinion, but I can't see anyone in any platform using the default ATC.  We have Vatsim and Pilot Edge for that.  And Vatsim is free.  At least it was last time I checked.

41 minutes ago, Noel said:

When I early on naively shared images from 2020 on the XP forum I was immediately met with scoff and scorn

This one I take issue with.  Much of this point depends on context, but if it was just a post showing how good you perceived MSFS to be, in an X-Plane forum, can you blame the reaction?  You're basically saying "This looks better than XP!".  Obviously I'm saying this with nothing to go on, so if you want to provide context, feel free to do so.  

41 minutes ago, Noel said:

it will come largely down to graphics, be in on the ground and/or up in the air.  

I kind of agree.  X-Plane already has the scenery with Auto Ortho and Map Enhancement.  Auto Ortho will give the same, or in some cases, better scenery than MSFS.  The advantage for MSFS is streaming scenery is included, whereas autoortho is a plugin.  

There are other factors at play.  An example that proves my point...P3D was touted as the X-Plane killer when it came out.  I remember it vividly.  These very forums were on fire with people laughing at X-Plane attempting to compete with LM.  We all know how that ended up, as of yesterday.  

And I feel I don't even have to talk about MS Flight, and how it performed.  

I'm not taking anything away from Asobo and Working Title.  I have an enormous amount of respect for Matt Nischan because of something he said in the WT discord.  They are very talented at what they do, and Jorg has definitely steered the entire project in the right direction.  However, any businesses success is dependent on several unseen factors.  Word of mouth and promotion (flying streamers out to Seattle is one example of promotion) being a couple of examples. 

Edited April 17, 20251 yr by GoranM

19 minutes ago, Noel said:

You're FOS with that comment, which clearly the irony in your comment is lost on you:  it's YOU who came into this thread over and over trying to make the case XP is better than MSFS and in your words the latter will go the way of Flight.  

Short attention span? Surely you remember your behaviour in the XP forum not so long ago. Medicine tastes sweet when you give it to others, but bitter when you have to swallow it yourself ...

I don't want to talk about your sim because it has never done anything for me.

 

4 hours ago, Seth2021 said:

What about the  sarcastic-ironic- ego - attitude of the main head of X-Plane? Is this a good example for  flight sim users? 

for example: 

Do you hang out with Austin...?

Do you know the CEO of your computer manufacturer / ISP / OS manufacturer?

No? So why do you care ..?

Steve Jobs and Steve Balmer are famously sarcastic-ironic egotists. Yet it's almost certain you use/used their products.

You don't need to care what the personality of a mass market vendor is like. All you need to care about is whether they deliver the product you want.

Edited April 17, 20251 yr by UrgentSiesta

1 hour ago, fsiscool said:

I see you have a really hard time to handle different opinions too. Or do you think it is a good discussion culture, to ask anyone with whom you disagree to "give it a rest"?

I see you missed the point. Try reading the whole thread to get some context. Would you write an essay without reading books? Do you just a book by it’s cover? 

40 minutes ago, flying_carpet said:

Short attention span? Surely you remember your behaviour in the XP forum not so long ago. Medicine tastes sweet when you give it to others, but bitter when you have to swallow it yourself ...

Yes I do and it was a reaction to the scoff and scorn I received.  You may not remember the original context but I truly was a lot like someone who was just 'born again' and wanted to share something so amazing to others--that was my agenda having visited the forum only to learn many didn't really know much about MSFS yet were making deleterious comments about it.  My intentions were good but naive as to how the XP rabid dogs would respond, and they were like rabid dogs.  

Since this has become XP vs MSFS.....we be done now! 🔒