1 hour ago, JonathanC said:

Nah man, you are always negative about MSFS. I've been on these forums for years, I've read your stuff before. 

I've been one of the few people that has said MSFS scenery is far superior to X-Plane's.  I've been one of the few people that said MSFS does some things better than X-Plane and vice versa.  I've been one of the few people that has commended Asobo on bringing a resurgence to flight simming.  Before you spout off your own negative opinions about other people, research what those people have said in the past.

1 hour ago, JonathanC said:

Even now you're taking swipes at me.

Do you even take into consideration the swipe you took at me?  I don't even know you, yet you threw out an opinion about me based on anecdotes or sporadic posts you may have paid particular attention to.

1 hour ago, JonathanC said:

I'm just an ordinary simmer that likes to talk to fellow simmers who are also enthusiastic about this fine hobby. This makes me happy. 

Ditto

1 hour ago, JonathanC said:

I know you are an XP developer and therefore your livelihood is tied to XP doing well

I was making add ons for XP before it was doing well.  I was into MSFS since FS5 up to FS Flight, which I beta tested, while making add ons for X-Plane.

1 hour ago, JonathanC said:

Not here for a fight about your sim or my sim or whatever. I don't care that much.

That's fine.  I only took offense to your remark about me being 'constantly negative', when I'm anything but.  I can be objectively negative about a lot of things.  Even my own work.  I can discuss both sims, any time.  But when you take it personal, well, expect something personal in return.  Fair enough?

Edited October 13, 2025Oct 13 by GoranM

18 hours ago, mSparks said:

just grabbing a random SS from the XP discord, because I'm not sure you realise where XP is at now...

(credit:cripz)

If you (or anyone else) doesn't have XP12, - or just doesn't  have it installed atm, and actually even if you do, I would recommend everyone have a scroll through the official xp-screenshots channel, there is a lot of "How is this possible on a home PC?" screenshots dropping in there, what you posted isn't really one of them - imho.

No, I only posted that to show that the culling of planes issue is fixed in SU4 Beta (at least to a large extent, no idea if it's 100%).

I'm not trying to show off MSFS, this isn't about that. There's plenty of beautiful photos of either sim, plenty of bad ones too. Not a sim food fight, please. 

 

Mods please delete my posts from this thread if they are not allowed, I was only trying to help out a fellow simmer. I'll stay away from now on, lesson learned. 

32 minutes ago, JonathanC said:

Mods please delete my posts from this thread if they are not allowed, I was only trying to help out a fellow simmer. I'll stay away from now on, lesson learned. 

Images speak louder than a thousand words and in response to the culling comment. I personally see no issue with your post.

@JonathanC There’s really no need to remove your posts. Unlike another section of avsim, we’re not the sort of people who enjoy stirring up heated arguments.  Quite the opposite, actually.

For example, I once started a thread comparing MSFS and X-Plane that ran for fifteen pages without a single argument. Even Ray remarked how surprisingly civil it was. Alan started a similar one that went for twelve pages, same story.

That’s one of the strengths of this section: we can have open discussions about these things without resorting to personal shots or rage baiting.

My question wasn’t meant to be malicious.  I was genuinely surprised by the change in cloud quality. Even the “volcanic ash” clouds looked better in 2020. If it’s just a setting or tweak, you could’ve said so, and that would’ve been the end of it.

Like you, we all enjoy flight simming in its many forms. As long as everyone stays level-headed, there’s no reason we can’t have thoughtful and enjoyable discussions here.

1 hour ago, JonathanC said:

No, I only posted that to show that the culling of planes issue is fixed in SU4 Beta (at least to a large extent, no idea if it's 100%).

I'm not trying to show off MSFS, this isn't about that. There's plenty of beautiful photos of either sim, plenty of bad ones too. Not a sim food fight, please. 

 

it's great to update on MS also gradually fixing it's issues, no one wants to see outdated information continue to propagate, but I was left with the impression from both the follow on posts and your screenshot, that you weren't aware why Goran reacted the way he did to seeing those clouds, I imagined you didn't even notice them when making the shot, 6 months ago I wouldn't have either.

The entire point of this thread imho is the bar has quickly been raised higher than pretty much anyone thought possible, myself included (I knew it was going to be good, but this good... in VR... no way), and suddenly things like that stand out.

We aren't talking hypothetical or promises any more. Awesome is here and now, with just a hint of perf woes that are within reach of being fully resolved.

I would say we are bumping up against flawless:

I know it isn't, but also, even mundane shots like the one you posted have a wow factor in XP now, couple with very few and diminishing issues that I don't think is understood by the vast majority of flight simmers.

Oh and also just in case you don't know, Goran has his name credited on almost certainly the most respected aircraft in flight sim, he probably is often quite negative, but only because like others who have got themselves to that status, he holds everything and everyone to the highest standard, long may that continue imho.

I think this recent "cloud" argument shows how thin the newfound layer of civility in the "flight-sim-war" still is. Just like two opponents that have been in conflict for years and now enjoy some sort of ceasefire, both sides are nervously watching the other, fingers on the trigger, and it is easy to stir up an emotional response. 

5 years ago MSFS2020 steamrolled X-Plane 12 in popularity - and this brought out the worst on both sides, with X-Planers acting hurt and getting defensive like a cornered animal and MSFSlers gloating and ridiculing their opponents like the a victorious army pillaging the defending city.

Now that X-Plane 12 has gained some ground in recent updates and with the recent disappointment in MSFS2024, the playing field has leveled, I feel, and this brought more power to the factions on both sides that say "can´t we all get along"?

I find this refreshing, but lets not forget that there is still a lot of pent up aggression on both sides...we need to tread carefully, lest open hostilities commence again.

Edited October 14, 2025Oct 14 by Litjan

9 minutes ago, Litjan said:

I think this recent "cloud" argument shows how thin the newfound layer of civility in the "flight-sim-war" still is. Just like two opponents that have been in conflict for years and now enjoy some sort of ceasefire, both sides are nervously watching the other, fingers on the trigger, and it is easy to stir up an emotional response. 

5 years ago MSFS2020 steamrolled X-Plane 12 in popularity - and this brought out the worst on both sides, with X-Planers acting hurt and getting defensive like a cornered animal and MSFSlers gloating and ridiculing their opponents like the a victorious army pillaging the defending city.

Now that X-Plane 12 has gained some ground in recent updates and with the recent disappointment in MSFS2024, the playing field has leveled, I feel, and this brought more power to the factions on both sides that say "can´t we all get along"?

I find this refreshing, but lets not forget that there is still a lot of pent up aggression on both sides...we need to tread carefully, lest open hostilities commence again.

Simples. If everyone just stopped thinking in terms of "sides" or factions or whatever there wouldn't be any such issues.

To stay on topic though, I'll just add that I too have just spent a few days re-acquainting myself with XP and am absolutely loving it. Got into it with XP10, XP11 became my sim of choice (over P3D at the time) and I had a hugely complex and perfectly set up environment with masses of ortho4xp and other addons, probably about 8 - 10 Tb in total, but then along came 2020 and blew me away. And now 2024 is here, and a bit of a mixed bag. Up close, and I mean real close - flying tundra style out of fields etc, it is just beyond magnificent.  But the LODs and the unmitigatingly disastrous PG tree obelisks really kill it in lots of other areas. 

I'd gotten XP12 when it came out, and was impressed from the off, but still spent nearly all of my time in MSFS. And then for some reason (probably the endless b*tching in the MSFS forum) I decided to take a look in here and see what was happening, and in one post I read I saw a vid about the Embraer L1000. Sold! Had to have that, and that got me in to setting up my XP12 again from scratch.

Now (hopefully) settled with Orbx's True Earth all bedded in, Simheaven below that, and using the Map replacement Pro package at base, it all seems very fine indeed.

Not "better" or  "worse" than MSFS, just different. My main reason for simming is that I like to explore the world, and I also love aircraft, but I have absolutely zero desire to be a pilot, either in real life or any sim. I just want to get in the air and fly interesting things around looking both at the earth (not far) below and for at least as much time watching the aircraft I'm in as it travels around.

In MSFS I really spend the minimum time I can in the actual cockpit, and I really spend almost no time at all in the big iron or at major airports. Pure tedium to me. Helicopters would be ideal but generally require too much time learning to handle properly and that's not what I'm about. So mostly small GA and lots of sub 1000 feet pottering about.

But one of the things I always did enjoy about XP was the fact that the big iron feels more accessible to me. I actually quite enjoy (hand) flying them about and even the whole major airport thing. Plus for my more customary low level fiddling around, although the general scenery quality can't compete with MSFS, XP has totally nailed the ground traffic - I love to get down to roof height and just follow a freeway for a few miles. Try following the highway up from Key West to Miami at the sort of height you can read the number plates, preferably with Orbx's True Earth in place, if you've not done it before - it walks all over MSFS to my eyes.

So yes, we're now in the fortunate position of having (at least) two totally amazing sim environments to play in. 

Why folk can't just be happy with that beats me (actually, I fully understand the psychological and even biological/chemical reasons for this behaviour, but we're supposed to be able to control our hormones as grown-ups).

Nah, not so complicated. This isn't a diplomatic issue that you need to analyze it in terms of "ceasefire" and whatnot. 

It's simply that there are about a dozen people on these forums who only like to fight. Equally divided between both sims. These people (and we all know who they are) just can't let things be, will always be super negative, will go on and on in post after post and will never, ever, admit to an error or even a misunderstanding. They are always right and will always, always, let you know!

Their sim is their entire identity and woe betide anyone that does not worship at the altar of the one true sim, whichever one that is. 

The only thing they achieve is to drive away any reasonable people who aren't really here to fight for hours about a silly computer game. 

 

 

7 hours ago, andy1252 said:

Helicopters would be ideal but generally require too much time learning to handle properly

I urge you to consider the XT CH-47. Its twin main rotors and extensive auto-stability systems make it incredibly airplane-ish in its flight characteristics (it even has wheels 😎).

it is also one of the fastest helos in the world, even beating many single engine GA aircraft!

But IMHO the absolute best sightseeing aircraft in XP is the DWS F-16(!)

It offers simply unparalleled visibility from the pilots seat, with an unobstructed bubble canopy and extremely low cockpit rails, etc.

its also graphically well modeled, so when you are in the cockpit, everything looks great. 👍 

An added bonus is, of course, the performance: you can go from runway to FL300 in less than a minute or two 😎.

it’ll also happily cruise as slow as 170kts, and  you don’t ever need to operate the flaps - totally automatic  

Great - now I feel like a sim session, and I’ve still got a LOT of work to do…! 😂

Edited October 14, 2025Oct 14 by UrgentSiesta

26 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

I urge you to consider the XT CH-47.

Ta for that, I'll look in to it. Actually, I'm better with the helos in XP anyway. The stock Sikorsky is perfectly fine and handles ok for me here. In MSFS I'm ok with the Bell 47G - perfect visibility and I can usually get it going in the direction I want and have even been know to land in the field I was aiming for. I enjoyed the HPG 135 originally, and the 145 looked good at first but I've not enjoyed it of late. The Huey is managable there as well.

I'd bought the Cowansim something or other (222?) in MSFS and all with all the bull about "you MUST set up the collective this way" etc about it I just thought something the censors won't let me quote here. I really hate these vendors who take pride in being "realistic" to the point of unusability. It's a game, on a home PC, and amount of "accuracy" is going to change that. At least have the decency to allow for catering to that audience.

Meanwhile, enjoying my super bizjet (L1000) here, and the PC-6.

3 hours ago, andy1252 said:

Ta for that, I'll look in to it. Actually, I'm better with the helos in XP anyway. The stock Sikorsky is perfectly fine and handles ok for me here. In MSFS I'm ok with the Bell 47G - perfect visibility and I can usually get it going in the direction I want and have even been know to land in the field I was aiming for. I enjoyed the HPG 135 originally, and the 145 looked good at first but I've not enjoyed it of late. The Huey is managable there as well.

I'd bought the Cowansim something or other (222?) in MSFS and all with all the bull about "you MUST set up the collective this way" etc about it I just thought something the censors won't let me quote here. I really hate these vendors who take pride in being "realistic" to the point of unusability. It's a game, on a home PC, and amount of "accuracy" is going to change that. At least have the decency to allow for catering to that audience.

Meanwhile, enjoying my super bizjet (L1000) here, and the PC-6.

Helicopters in MSFS, even the better, still leave a lot to be desired, specially if you're up for traning some emmergencies, such as a "simple" autorotation.

None of the helicopters, including the best payware alternatives, do iit right simply because of the present limitations and bugs in the rotary flight dynamics...

In Xp12 even the default R22 and many freeware from the .ORG do the job acceptably.

For the top I still load DCS World, and yes Aerofly FS 4 also has really nice choper flight dynamics...

Edited October 14, 2025Oct 14 by jcomm

1 hour ago, andy1252 said:

Ta for that, I'll look in to it. Actually, I'm better with the helos in XP anyway. The stock Sikorsky is perfectly fine and handles ok for me here. In MSFS I'm ok with the Bell 47G - perfect visibility and I can usually get it going in the direction I want and have even been know to land in the field I was aiming for. I enjoyed the HPG 135 originally, and the 145 looked good at first but I've not enjoyed it of late. The Huey is managable there as well.

I'd bought the Cowansim something or other (222?) in MSFS and all with all the bull about "you MUST set up the collective this way" etc about it I just thought something the censors won't let me quote here. I really hate these vendors who take pride in being "realistic" to the point of unusability. It's a game, on a home PC, and amount of "accuracy" is going to change that. At least have the decency to allow for catering to that audience.

Meanwhile, enjoying my super bizjet (L1000) here, and the PC-6.

HA - excellent!

the Bell 47 is a GREAT sight seeing helo!

in re the Cowan, I’m pretty sure those annoying control bindings were more related to v2020’s poor support for helo throttles (iirc), which have a vastly different function in helos than planes 

So though I have many nits to pick with Cowan, I don’t think this particular one is on him 🤙

X-Crafts have done commendable work with their E-Jets v2, and the Lineage biz jet is such a nice change from pax cabins. It’s been VERY tempting for just that feature alone 

im holding out for their pending ERJ v2, which should also have a biz jet cabin. The ERJ is a nice change from the typical twin jet on wings planform 😊

anyhoo, sounds like you’ve done a lot of experimenting already and have things well in hand. 😁👍

 

 

To go back to the original post, here's the results of just a couple of days messing around on my system

This is over Washington DC, so just SimHeaven over XPME pro (using Google maps) in this shot. True Earth doesn't cover this region. Ground detail maybe not quite as impressive as in MSFS, but the LODs are way, way better and the ease of taking screenshots, saving and replaying the flight etc more than make up for that. I'll be back in 2024 again ere too long, but I suspect I'll be spending a few days just exploring some of my old favourite XP aircraft (and maybe a few new ones) for now.

(Image is 4k and most settings in the sim and MEP maxed - can be occasionally a bit stuttery at these levels but I'm ok with that)

12 hours ago, JonathanC said:

will always be super negative

How dare they be unwilling to bow to the competitor in these forums. "Shame" on them for having a preference and watching a recession in real time while also being called mentally ill or on drugs for standing up to an underdog (which is wrong regardless of any black/white sim preference). There's no "ceasefire". What did happen here is that forum policing became more active. 

What you should have done was create a thread over yonder and @ the user you wanted to notify of the LOD changes. Generally nobody cares about the competitor here. Those who are curious actively read those forums. Your public post is wide open for accurate criticism. Nobody insulted you. Shame on you.