The only thing I wish he fixes is the engine mixture/leaning. It doesnt work correctly in any blacksquare airplane so far (Including these new ones)

It appears that even if you go into MSFS and create a blank control profile for the Honeycomb Bravo to be used with SPAD.neXt, the annunciator lights are still somehow bound to MSFS. I can certainly program them in SPAD.neXt, but they still get triggered from within the sim. So for example, I can get the lights to go on when I press the annunciator test button in the cockpit, but the sim still triggers them to go on and off at various times depending on aircraft state.

Any suggestions on how to deal with that?

7 hours ago, xender said:

The only thing I wish he fixes is the engine mixture/leaning. It doesnt work correctly in any blacksquare airplane so far (Including these new ones)

I've not flown the normally aspirated versions so I can't speak to those, but for turbo-charged Black Square aircraft I own (Piston Duke, turbo-charged and presurrized Barons and turbo-normalized Bonanza) they're one of the ONLY developers who gets leaning right.  For reference, I owned and flew a turbo-charged airplane IRL.

 

Scott

Edit:  Looking at the BS forums, I now understand what you're referring to.  It's leaning behavior above critical altitude, yes?  I rarely (never yet in the case of the new ones) go above critical altitude in these aircraft so I guess I hadn't noticed the issue.  Sounds like he's aware of the problem, it's been a difficult one to address and a fix is coming shortly. 

Would've helped if you'd included more info, including the fact that he's working on a fix to be released shortly - something you already acknowledged and thanked him for over there.

S

Edited November 1, 2025Nov 1 by tttocs

3 hours ago, tttocs said:

I've not flown the normally aspirated versions so I can't speak to those, but for turbo-charged Black Square aircraft I own (Piston Duke, turbo-charged and presurrized Barons and turbo-normalized Bonanza) they're one of the ONLY developers who gets leaning right.  For reference, I owned and flew a turbo-charged airplane IRL.

 

Scott

Edit:  Looking at the BS forums, I now understand what you're referring to.  It's leaning behavior above critical altitude, yes?  I rarely (never yet in the case of the new ones) go above critical altitude in these aircraft so I guess I hadn't noticed the issue.  Sounds like he's aware of the problem, it's been a difficult one to address and a fix is coming shortly. 

Would've helped if you'd included more info, including the fact that he's working on a fix to be released shortly - something you already acknowledged and thanked him for over there.

S

So what IS the correct way an add-on should behave when leaning above critical altitude?   Would it lean "normally" above critical alt, i.e. you don't touch the levers until you're at or above the critical altiude, and then at that point you would lean either ROP or LOP depending on what you want?

5 hours ago, tttocs said:

I've not flown the normally aspirated versions so I can't speak to those, but for turbo-charged Black Square aircraft I own (Piston Duke, turbo-charged and presurrized Barons and turbo-normalized Bonanza) they're one of the ONLY developers who gets leaning right.  For reference, I owned and flew a turbo-charged airplane IRL.

 

Scott

Edit:  Looking at the BS forums, I now understand what you're referring to.  It's leaning behavior above critical altitude, yes?  I rarely (never yet in the case of the new ones) go above critical altitude in these aircraft so I guess I hadn't noticed the issue.  Sounds like he's aware of the problem, it's been a difficult one to address and a fix is coming shortly. 

Would've helped if you'd included more info, including the fact that he's working on a fix to be released shortly - something you already acknowledged and thanked him for over there.

S

What I mean is that in all the blacksquare planes, when you begin to lean, the fuel flow rises. That makes no sense. Only if you keep leaning then the fuel flow starts to drop. Im sure this is a sim issue and not a blacksquare issue, but hopefully he can find a workaround for it. A2A for example works perfectly.

Maybe I am out of bounds, but if you are playing MSFS for that level of accuracy, it might be time to bust out the log book and actually go fly a plane

53 minutes ago, Sweetd31 said:

Maybe I am out of bounds, but if you are playing MSFS for that level of accuracy, it might be time to bust out the log book and actually go fly a plane

Don't forget 'busting  out the wallet'. $50 for sim airplane. Add several zeros to that when you bust out a logbook.

1 hour ago, xender said:

What I mean is that in all the blacksquare planes, when you begin to lean, the fuel flow rises. That makes no sense. Only if you keep leaning then the fuel flow starts to drop. Im sure this is a sim issue and not a blacksquare issue, but hopefully he can find a workaround for it. A2A for example works perfectly.

The issue is addressed on the Justflight Baron Professional forum. Look here:  

Does it have the same leaning shortcomings as the dukes? | Just Flight Community

1 hour ago, xender said:

What I mean is that in all the blacksquare planes, when you begin to lean, the fuel flow rises. That makes no sense. Only if you keep leaning then the fuel flow starts to drop. Im sure this is a sim issue and not a blacksquare issue, but hopefully he can find a workaround for it

According to the comments here, he's working on a fix for this issue that he plans to debut in the upcoming Commander 114, and then back-port to the other piston aircraft.

1 hour ago, xender said:

A2A for example works perfectly.

They do, but the difference there is that they run the engine model outside of MSFS, which means it's entirely under their control. Black Square, as I understand it, uses the MSFS engine model, certainly as far as the leaning behavior is concerned.

1 hour ago, Sweetd31 said:

Maybe I am out of bounds, but if you are playing MSFS for that level of accuracy, it might be time to bust out the log book and actually go fly a plane

...or wait for Nick to fix it (see above).

4 minutes ago, Les Parson said:

The issue is addressed on the Justflight Baron Professional forum. Look here:  

Does it have the same leaning shortcomings as the dukes? | Just Flight Community

Please delete; already covered by another post. 

4 hours ago, Mace said:

So what IS the correct way an add-on should behave when leaning above critical altitude?   Would it lean "normally" above critical alt, i.e. you don't touch the levers until you're at or above the critical altiude, and then at that point you would lean either ROP or LOP depending on what you want?

The issue has to do with fuel flow increasing on initial lean and then decreasing.  It should decrease as soon as you begin to lean.  This problem, in one form or another, has been around Microsoft sims just about forever.

As to what you should do in the sim... Critical Altitude in the Bo is 19,000 (standard temp & pressure), which is higher than I would normally fly this non-pressurized plane.  While recommendations may vary between models, in general I would not lean in climb, even above critical altitude.  Doing so IRL would risk rising CHTs.  Note that in climb, boost pump use is often required IRL.  After leveling off and setting cruise power I would then do a standard LOP adjustment once speed has stabilized.  I would never aggressively lean in the climb.

I mentioned this in another post, but things get lost in these long threads...  I highly recommend the document from Tornado Alley Turbo (the folks who do the Turbo-normalizing conversion for the Bo) to learn how the folks who produce it recommend you fly it.  You can find it at:  https://taturbo.com/turbooperation.html

All that aside, Black Square is still one of the only (maybe the only?) developer who's turbo-charged GA planes don't require leaning in order to maintain power as though they were normally aspirated.  And, at least in the Bo, once you've leaned to around 50-60 degrees LOP, fuel flow seems to be about right.  (And again, this is yet another reason I recommend leaning via TIT/EGT - an especially easy task with the included EDM-800 and its Lean Find feature - rather than the approximation involved in leaning to a fuel flow value.)   In every other TC'ed sim plane I've flown in FSX/P3D or MSFS, you have to aggressively lean to maintain power in the climb as if they were normally aspirated.  This is egregiously incorrect. 

 

Scott

Edited November 1, 2025Nov 1 by tttocs

1 hour ago, Sweetd31 said:

Maybe I am out of bounds, but if you are playing MSFS for that level of accuracy, it might be time to bust out the log book and actually go fly a plane

We all sim for our own reasons.  If this stuff doesn't matter to you - that's OK.  But if it does, that's OK too. 

For my part, I appreciate the accuracy folks like Black Square strive for.  If it's something you don't need/want/care about there are plenty of planes out there that don't sweat the details to this level. 

That's good, don't you think?

 

Scott

53 minutes ago, tttocs said:

The issue has to do with fuel flow increasing on initial lean and then decreasing.  It should decrease as soon as you begin to lean.  This problem, in one form or another, has been around Microsoft sims just about forever.

As to what you should do in the sim... Critical Altitude in the Bo is 19,000 (standard temp & pressure), which is higher than I would normally fly this non-pressurized plane.  While recommendations may vary between models, in general I would not lean in climb, even above critical altitude.  Doing so IRL would risk rising CHTs.  Note that in climb, boost pump use is often required IRL.  After leveling off and setting cruise power I would then do a standard LOP adjustment once speed has stabilized.  I would never aggressively lean in the climb.

I mentioned this in another post, but things get lost in these long threads...  I highly recommend the document from Tornado Alley Turbo (the folks who do the Turbo-normalizing conversion for the Bo) to learn how the folks who produce it recommend you fly it.  You can find it at:  https://taturbo.com/turbooperation.html

All that aside, Black Square is still one of the only (maybe the only?) developer who's turbo-charged GA planes don't require leaning in order to maintain power as though they were normally aspirated.  And, at least in the Bo, once you've leaned to around 50-60 degrees LOP, fuel flow seems to be about right.  (And again, this is yet another reason I recommend leaning via TIT/EGT - an especially easy task with the included EDM-800 and its Lean Find feature - rather than the approximation involved in leaning to a fuel flow value.)   In every other TC'ed sim plane I've flown in FSX/P3D or MSFS, you have to aggressively lean to maintain power in the climb as if they were normally aspirated.  This is egregiously incorrect. 

 

Scott

The following is in the real world Raytheon/Beech B58 Baron Normally Aspirated POH: 

Section IV Normal Procedures BEECHCRAFT Baron 58

                                                                                                                                   NOTE

With the mixture control in the FULL RICH position, the Engine Driven Altitude Compen sating Fuel Pump will automatically lean engine mixture for the airplane's pressure altitude as the airplane climbs.

 

I imagine this cannot be accomplished within the confines of MSFS. 

                                                                                                                                 

 

News from BlackSquare - 

Hot-swappable tip-tank and winglet variations, and the ability to remove the radar display unit with the wing radar pod will be added in v1.1, for which you should only have to wait a couple days. 

The Baron 58 is really nice (I didn't try the other ones yet). Only thing that irks me is, some variables don't stay between flights (depending on livery, I've had the radio stack resetting to the 750, the Hobbs meters reset to zero...).

According to what I read on JF's forum it's a sim issue. Well, it doesn't prevent me from flying.