(not as if anybody cares <grin>)

I'm recently back here using XP12, having been encouraged by a few pix I'd seen amongst other things (hats off to Filou, as always). Been spending most of my time in MSFS since it came out, but also got XP12 on release. Previously a very happy user of XP10 and particularly XP11, but got blown away by MSFS's visuals originally. Still a big user of MSFS, mostly 2024, but XP12 has really grabbed me again in the last week or two. I've read through a couple of threads here talking about the benefits of XP and I'm not looking to start another "us and them" post, but just wanted to present my own thoughts as they're not apparently what most hardcore XP users seem to like most about the sim.

First thing I like, with one major proviso, is actually the look of the environment. Here is a shot heading out from EGLL over Windsor.

It might look a bit bland here - as a UK user I can't use Imgur any more and it looks like Postimage is reducing the images to a much lower resolution, but the original is a full 4k image and on my large 55 inch HDR monitor it is simply wonderful . The level of detail is immense, and the colours are a bit livelier than showing here. 

The proviso is that this is with Orbx's True Earth UK scenery in place. I have installed all their TE products, both XP12 and XP11 versions, and all work fine. Not as good as native MSFS for me but more than acceptable. I'm also using Simheaven and the Map Replacement Tool (Pro version) for the non TE areas, but I'm definitely spending 99% of my XP flight time over the TE regions.

But with that said, I am as pleased with the look of XP12 as I am with MSFS. They have a different look, but to me it's just that - different, rather than a case of "better" in either direction.

What is definitely way, way better though is that I don't have the same LOD and scenery popping issues here that I get in 2024 (and now also in 2020, as they seem to have back ported them!) Also of course I don't have photogrammetry here in XP, but that's both a bad and a good thing. WHen PG is good it's brilliant, but when it's bad it's disastrous, and here TE provides a good enough built environment that I don't miss the good PG, and the fact that I don't have to wince every time I encounter a run of those appalling vegetative obelisks that PG throws up. I call them "uglifacts" and PG will never be really acceptable until they are removed.

The other really big thing for me, and I've mentioned this in other posts before, is the road and rail mechanisms in XP. Although some of the roads in the shot above are a bit "shouty", the major motorways/freeways, along with the railways, are beautifully done. One of the very best things about XP for me, and probably the thing I miss most when I'm in MSFS.

Also, little things like the ease of taking screenshots - I have the trigger on my stick set for screenshots, so I really can just fire off a grab whenever I'm flying without having to think about it. In MSFS taking a screenie is a three finger operation which means that most of the time I have to pause the sim, move stuff around, and then reach over my controls to the keyboard. Bit of a faff. Likewise the ease of saving a replay/flight and subsequently reviewing it. Magic! Third party software required in practice for MSFS.

You might notice that I've said nothing about flight models and suchlike. That's because I don't care about any of that. I've seen phrases like "serious aviation enthusiasts" in a couple of the other threads recently, with the implication that you cannot possibly be serious (apologies to John McEnroe) about a sim unless you are serious about every aspect of piloting and suchlike. For myself, I don't see that. I'd consider myself a fairly serious wingnut, I've always been interested in aircraft since a kid and I've probably got about 30 or 40 feet of bookshelves of aviation books and magazines, but I don't care about how they are flown, beyond the very basics. I'm also pretty serious about simming - not necessarily long term as I didn't get into this until the graphics were at a minimum level of acceptability for me, which was around FSX (actually MS Flight, but there you go). But for MSFS for example, I have around 1000 payware addons and I was just as crazy with P3D.

The only reason I'm really re-stating all this, is because the other thing I really like about XP is -

I don't exactly know why it is, but I really do enjoy actually flying with XP much more than in MSFS. I find I spend a lot more time in the cockpit rather than doing most of my flights in 50/50 external view/cockpit. I even enjoy taxi-ing around and flying in big iron in XP, which is something I rarely do in MSFS. Doesn't mean I'm doing the pilot thing, I barely look at, let alone touch, most of the various switches and buttons in there, but along as I can get where I want to go I actually enjoy the vibe of doing it. I've even been know to practice circuits in XP just for the fun of trying to land in a straight line!

I'm never going to be buying the same level of addons for XP - I'm certainly not going to add airports/airfields for non TE areas where I'm never going to fly anyway, but I'm a sucker for an interesting plane. Grabbed three or four already since I got back here.

And I don't hanker for XP to be more like MSFS or vice versa. Happy to use both just the way they are. Sure, if XP suddenly got to look as good down at the ground to 1000 feet level as MSFS I'd be a very happy man, and if MSFS cleans up its act re what I consider its failures I'll be happy there as well, but for me, right now, I really do have two very excellent sims that I can use according to my mood.

Long may they both survive and prosper.

As always, interesting to hear your thoughts. 🙂

Great post! Thx for sharing your thoughts...

I have been totally pulled in by XPlane 12. Not much to not like if you’re one of those after more realistic simulation of airplane flying and I’m amazed at the default airports and even the realism of so many out of the way small fields. And then some of the freeware aircraft like ZIBO and Level UP 737 are something to behold. Who are these guys that give the community these aircraft that IMHO exceeds the expensive payware of other platforms in every respect? I have acquired a deep appreciation for Laminar Research along with developers of addons both free and commercial. Seems to me even the forum community seems more interested in exchanging helpful ideas than being pridefully antagonistic. I seem to have found my sim home.

23 hours ago, andy1252 said:

as a UK user I can't use Imgur any more

A shame that censorship is going further there 😡

I personally use Photos in Google (not Drive) to share images here. Works great in just a few clicks. 🤙

probably works for an MS account as well - will have to try that, myself. 

23 hours ago, andy1252 said:

I even enjoy taxi-ing around and flying in big iron in XP,

So true! And as good as the best MSFS Big Iron addons are these days, taxi & landing are (IMHO) still far more satisfying in a good XP airliner.

23 hours ago, andy1252 said:

I've even been know to practice circuits in XP just for the fun of trying to land in a straight line!

It’s even more fun in an airliner! The pattern is so wide you can lose sight of the airfield with just the slightest bit of haze or low-ish clouds. 

I really enjoy running ILS patterns, myself. Really helps reinforce the proper sight picture, even on severe-clear days. 

// 

you didn’t ask, but…🙃

the vSkyLabs addons are great fun for touring around, and are really much better quality than their low prices suggest. Also truly interesting airframes to experiment with (eg the VolksJaeger and “F-19”). 

the Aerobask ViperJet is greeaat for touring - outstanding visibility, very fast, fully aerobatic, even has a HUD! Also a great value when on sale.

//

and in closing, THANK YOU so much for such a well balanced and well reasoned post. What a breath of fresh air!!

you make simming seem like fun, and you make me wanna go fly (which is about the highest praise I can give 😁🤙)

4 hours ago, Patco Lch said:

freeware aircraft like ZIBO and Level UP 737

Love that LevelUP 736! And IIRC, there’s a pending v2 in the works 😁

1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

you make simming seem like fun

Well, thank you kindly sir! Actually, it's a mystery to me why some of the folks here (in the wider sense, not necessarily this particular forum) actually continue simming - they seem to get so wound up about it sometimes. It should be fun. Taking something seriously shouldn't remove the pleasure or fun from it.

Oh, and I probably do already have pretty much everything VSkyLabs have done. Got the SR-71 the other day and grabbed a DC-3 yesterday. Not quite so enchanted with that one, looks great but insists on "proper" flying. Still, I'll give it a go. Anything where I really do have to do things like locking the rear wheel steering to be able to take off is not experience enhancing to me, more like a PITA. Each to their own though.

(and to add to the madness, I'm just in the process today of trying to get my old P3D v4 up and running again so that I can play with some of those old aircraft that I just know are never likely to get redone for either XP or MSFS. Can't remember a thing about setting up or using P3D at this point and so far, boy is it ugly. But then if I look back through my old screenshots I can see it got to be reasonably presentable in terms of general atmospherics so I'll carry on with the project. Just finished installing my old FSX version of the B-58 Hustler in there and I'm already well pleased I decided to do this. Got lots of great old aircraft that it'll be wonderful to see again)

2 hours ago, andy1252 said:

grabbed a DC-3 yesterday

LOL you did good. I spent days practicing ground handling with that one but finally got it. Like a helicopter you never stop flying until the engines stop. Don’t get to relaxed when she’s rolling no matter how slow or she’ll shoot off onto unimproved real estate or ground loop quicker than a mule can kick. Handles beautifully in the air but a handful from touch down until the next wheels up.

http://www.douglasdc3.com/dc3taxi/dc3taxi.htm

https://forums.x-plane.org/forums/topic/154409-tail-draggers-ground-operations-commandments/

andy1252 - an honest appraisal - welcome to the fun of XPlane. The realistic aircraft behaviour can dampen the fun but hey it is a flight sim! Good luck with the Gooney Bird - my only advice try a simple taildragger first like the piper cub - even it can be a wicked handful in the right conditions. Big taildraggers like the C-47 are still a taildragger lots of different aerodynamic issues at play on the ground and until they get in the air. Taildraggers got wrecked regularly in real life and so to in the sim! Once you get the hang of it - like flying a circuit and touch and go's the rest will follow - FSX had built in a very good tutorial lesson system for the Piper Cub as I recall. As for me flew them real once upon a time not a set and forget aeroplane on the ground and in windy conditions they have some very unpleasant responses unless you master them!

What could be more fun than mastering a taildragger?

On 10/17/2025 at 9:50 PM, andy1252 said:

I don't exactly know why it is, but I really do enjoy actually flying with XP much more than in MSFS.

same, I'm using XP all the time now over MSFS, it's hard to put your finger on exactly why, but it just feels so much more dynamic and alive, whatever stage of the flight you are at - it feels like the aircraft exists in that virtual space, and there are consequences and realism in everything you do, turbulence in clouds is hyper-realistic imo

no matter how much people post links to "ReAL piLOtS!!1!" championing the MSFS flight model, it simply doesn't come anywhere near close to what XP provides - for me, MSFS has still not (completely) shaken off the on-rails feel that has blighted the product forever

i'm not a pilot, and it may be that some aircraft in MSFS fly better to the numbers, but I am a human and I know what realistic motion and inertia looks and feels like

i mentioned in another thread that MSFS delivers the feeling of travelling to and arriving somewhere different better than XP (one of the main attractions in simming for me.....), but XP delivers the feeling of actually FLYING somewhere different far better - if they can nail the scenery improvements then that is the final piece of the puzzle for me

Edited October 19, 2025Oct 19 by EGLD

8 hours ago, coastaldriver said:

What could be more fun than mastering a taildragger?

Easy: Helicopters. 😁

12 hours ago, coastaldriver said:

What could be more fun than mastering a taildragger?

Mastering a 1700hp Merlin powered Spitfire with a free caster tailwheel and hand operated wheel brakes  😎

Edited October 19, 2025Oct 19 by UrgentSiesta

That is what I like about XP12 - A great simulation that has just got better and better.  As a thought I might revisit P3D which I had only because there were a group of models that I really enjoyed using and tinkering with. Well one look at V6 I thought - yuk - this is really not that much better than FSX was the textures etc were, after being nicely spoilt on XP12, not at least enticing at all. So parked in the bin for good. MSFS is an never will happen for a user like me because I cannot manage that sort of download streaming probably ever so no opinion on it or otherwise. 

I just dot no think people appreciate just how good XP12 is right out of the box and with no streaming demands (other than the real time weather hookup). I have a full hangar of old and bold stuff and more than enough realism to play all day if I wish. And some in particular like the Felis 747, the Tollis Airbuses and the XCraft Embraers are first class simulation, even the roughest or cheapest (visually or texture wise) are still very very good. Just try any taildragger is all the proof one needs. I get no crashes no unexpected errors and it runs beautifully on my now older system. The default scenery and airports especially are great and boy the Scenery Gateway idea and process does wonders to harness and improve airports all the time. So it is fun and pleasant. Got all the tubes I need, covered most of the GA stuff that took my interest - only missing big old multi engine pistons and flying boats. The rest is great. 

Edited October 19, 2025Oct 19 by coastaldriver

7 hours ago, Bjoern said:

Easy: Helicopters. 😁

True - my first attempt with a helicopter in XP12 needed the whole airport to hover aver a spot 😁  Now I just need a quarter of the airfield.

42 minutes ago, coastaldriver said:

just how good XP12 is right out of the box

Yep. 👍 

one thing I’ve been just recently surprised at is the significant visual improvement that can be had just by using an HD / UHD Mesh. They’re mostly free and take up MUCH less space than ortho images. 

the difference is dramatic, even on the flatlands.

in re Prepar3D, I’m still occasionally using it with the full Orbx stack and some rare birds like the unobtanium MilViz T-38C (glass cockpit, not steam gauge), the A2A Civ Mustang, and because of that, even the Majestic Q400 and a few other Hi Fi addons that have good flight models and still work just fine

But man, you are so right - box stock XP 12 measures up quite well even to a fully loaded P3D

the main thing that gets me is the natural lighting, clouds and atmospheric effects on the XP aircraft  

Truly superb!

 

Edited October 19, 2025Oct 19 by UrgentSiesta