1 minute ago, carlanthony24 said:

You don't get it even when checked you release a patch and in that time something can break. The bug isn't present for every single person because not everyone is on the beta. Obviously things would be tested you can't help when you release and something breaks when it releases. E.G I could release a livery its been checked by a number of people. I release it to everyone. The tail is just white or some other kind of text is missing but wasn't when checked. I now need to find out the cause of this issue which at times is not simple. 

Like you said maybe it wasn't deemed not significant to hold the beta release, in this day unfortunately you have to live with things you don't like. I certainly wouldn't keep back a beta build over this trivial thing especially if the update is bringing good things to people who are struggling like performance issues. I don't know how long it will take to fix the issue. I then fix said issue and it brings another bug with it maybe performance takes another hit. It is a never ending cycle. 

If a company releases code that works on their in-house systems, yet doesn't work for 100% of the users who use it in the real world, their test methodology deserves criticism and should be fixed.

If you consider this particular bug to be insignificant enough to not hold back the beta, I simply will agree to disagree (and the huge number of complaints and bug reports seem to support my feelings).  I fly in VR and would absolutely revert to SU3 without the user community "fix" for this bug that is now available.  The bug text is plenty annoying in 2D, but it is pretty much game breaking in VR.  This bug would prevent anyone flying in VR from participating in the SU4 beta.  That is a significant bug by my definition.

From MS management side all X-BOX titles are expected to have a profit of 30%

(sources: all over the place, e.g. https://www.engadget.com/gaming/xbox/microsoft-reportedly-ordered-its-xbox-division-to-boost-profits-to-an-unrealistic-level-150210398.html - for the YT junkies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-vYhK0M7pg .

You don't reach that goal if you hire  professional bughunting staff at a large scale. And, btw...you only have a chance to reach that goal by broadening the audience (means: Making the sim game more accessible...)

 

Edited November 4, 2025Nov 4 by MaGer1965

1 minute ago, MarcG said:

The infamous "flaps" bug happened because they signed it off and it crept in (somehow), it took a community member less than 24 hours to fix and yet we still had to wait 10 days for the major game breaking bug to be fixed by Asobo alongside complete silence from them on the matter, which was unacceptable at that time. 

Besides that, the sheer number of bugs that have gone through beta and into release builds over the years, other times like SU7 for 2020 when there wasn't even a beta but a major game breaking bug for VR/TrackIR users that was released to the public (still not fully fixed), all that and more suggests they don't have an internal testing team or one at least up to the task of finding the obvious issues that most of us see immediately.

That's why this UI issue wasn't a suprise that it happened to me, which is fine because at least they're going to fix it during the beta, but it really shouldn't of got "through" at this late stage in the first place. 

I'm more annoyed we had to wait 6+ weeks for the VR mouse/controller issues to be fixed, which stopped many people actually wanting to beta test in the first place. That's the sort of thing they need to get a grip on.

I have no sympathy for people who just want to be on a beta to then complain. "You had to wait 6+weeks" The joys of fixing issues I guess unless you believe you could do it faster maybe offer assistance. I remember GTA 5 and online was opened people couldn't play it because of server issues no doubt when GTA 6 comes the same will happen again. 

14 minutes ago, PlumCrazy said:

If a company releases code that works on their in-house systems, yet doesn't work for 100% of the users who use it in the real world, their test methodology deserves criticism and should be fixed.

If you consider this particular bug to be insignificant enough to not hold back the beta, I simply will agree to disagree (and the huge number of complaints and bug reports seem to support my feelings).  I fly in VR and would absolutely revert to SU3 without the user community "fix" for this bug that is now available.  The bug text is plenty annoying in 2D, but it is pretty much game breaking in VR.  This bug would prevent anyone flying in VR from participating in the SU4 beta.  That is a significant bug by my definition.

So from what you are saying. You release a product you come to us to say it wasn't like this during testing all of sudden something broke on release. We can criticise you for it? Makes no sense what so ever. The huge number of complaints/bug reports are because of one streamer who is so full of themselves. Again its a beta. If you can't hack bugs/game breaking bugs in a beta you shouldn't be on it.

8 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

I have no sympathy for people who just want to be on a beta to then complain. "You had to wait 6+weeks" The joys of fixing issues I guess unless you believe you could do it faster maybe offer assistance. I remember GTA 5 and online was opened people couldn't play it because of server issues no doubt when GTA 6 comes the same will happen again. 

Then you fail to realise how a Beta period should be run, it was a regression to a major part of gameplay (that worked fine for 5 years) that prevented people from actually helping with the beta so should've been prioritised with the utmost urgency, instead it took over 4 weeks for the "community mods" to say they'd been able to replicate it it on ONE VR headset internally and then another couple of weeks to fix.

These sorts of game breaking issues should be caught & fixed internally before the first Beta drops to allow users to properly test the software, not 6 weeks later, hence the very logical assumption that they don't actually have an internal testing team.

Edited November 4, 2025Nov 4 by MarcG

19 minutes ago, MarcG said:

Then you fail to realise how a Beta period should be run, it was a regression to a major part of gameplay (that worked fine for 5 years) that prevented people from actually helping with the beta so should've been prioritised with the utmost urgency, instead it took over 4 weeks for the "community mods" to say they'd been able to replicate it it on ONE VR headset internally and then another couple of weeks to fix.

These sorts of game breaking issues should be caught & fixed internally before the first Beta drops to allow users to properly test the software, not 6 weeks later, hence the very logical assumption that they don't actually have an internal testing team.

I really don't. "game breaking issues should be caught & fixed internally before the first beta drops" Okay so you create something I would bet that a game breaking issue would come up. Of course everyone's definition of game breaking is different.

34 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

 The huge number of complaints/bug reports are because of one streamer who is so full of themselves.

I have no clue about this "streamer" you are talking about.  If you were active on the official forums, you would have seen hundreds of complaints about this particular issue within an hour or so of the beta release.  It is well over a thousand now.  Pretty sure these people weren't there because of a video streamer LOL.

1 minute ago, PlumCrazy said:

I have no clue about this "streamer" you are talking about.  If you were active on the official forums, you would have seen hundreds of complaints about this particular issue within an hour or so of the beta release.  It is well over a thousand now.  Pretty sure these people weren't there because of a video streamer LOL.

The video was posted not long after the beta patch had been released. Being 34K have viewed it and 581 generally most of them said they voted. I also saw the video being shared around elsewhere. Funny enough every time they throw a wobble they get no sympathy. 

30 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

I really don't. "game breaking issues should be caught & fixed internally before the first beta drops" Okay so you create something I would bet that a game breaking issue would come up. Of course everyone's definition of game breaking is different.

Ok then I'm unsure how you're expecting a beta period to go when you don't know what they should run like 😄 Being unable to use the Mouse in a game is pretty much game breaking in anyones book where they rely on the mouse to work, no?!?

Anyway, onwards & upwards

2 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

That is a ridiculous statement. It is absolutely clear (based on the number of votes to get that message bar removed) that plenty of simmers do not like it, and find that it affects immersion. Are you saying that (at least) a thousand people have something wrong with them? What may be a "non issue" to you is obviously not a "non issue" to many others. Why can't you just accept that, instead of insinuating that anyone who is upset by it has "lost control over a substantial portion of their life"? 

You realise you are wasting your time don't you?  He is just another agitator with nothing of substance to say.  He has been doing this for years with little or no impact.
It seems to me if somebody comes on to a forum to constantly complain about people who complain about the sim, that is when someone has really lost control of their life or maybe with nothing better to do.
The 'you need to fix your rig' statements are so old and tired now they are beginning to get funny again.  

Edited November 4, 2025Nov 4 by bobcat999

3 minutes ago, MarcG said:

Ok then I'm unsure how you're expecting a beta period to go when you don't know what they should run like 😄 Being unable to use the Mouse in a game is pretty much game breaking in anyones book where they rely on the mouse to work, no?!?

Anyway, onwards & upwards

Now you are changing the game posts. Mouse to a text bar at the bottom big difference at least its still usable to most.

2 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

By the way, guys......PlumCrazy is spot on with his analysis. The fact that it is a beta release is totally irrelevant. If you have a bug that is guaranteed to be seen by anyone who simply loads a plane and enters the cockpit, then how was it missed? Are we really saying that the developers did not check it even once before releasing it to the community beta testers?

Given what little gems they managed to incorporate in previous service updates, like the insanely long loading times in the controller setup that was introduced in SU2 and was not hotfixed and had to wait months for a fix in SU3, I find that very likely.

5 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

@fluffyflops one of the biggest complainers about the Shift-C bug is A330 Driver, so is A330 Driver a "gamer" or a "simmer"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnZasEeSOos

Please tell us @fluffyflops, whether you consider A330 Driver to be a "gamer" or a "simmer."

simmer.   One of the few "streamers" i like.

thanks.

Edited November 4, 2025Nov 4 by fluffyflops

28 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

Now you are changing the game posts. Mouse to a text bar at the bottom big difference at least its still usable to most.

ok you've completely missed my point 😂

Just now, MarcG said:

ok you've completely missed my point 😂

I don't believe so. 😂