Out of BHX when I was in the jump seat on the 320/21 autopilot was put on around 500ft. Then again it was during high workload. 

Double post

Edited February 26Feb 26 by carlanthony24

5 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

I mean... WHY?  Is this some sort of company mandate?  Why not delay autopilot engagement or click it off sooner?  I usually hand fly the 73 up to 18k, and take the automation off on base, unless there's a good reason not to.

LOL. I hear you, and to answer your question, many reasons. It was in fact a company mandate that out of one particular airport we were required to engage the autopilot at 250' on the 747. Everyone knew it was ridiculous, and it only lasted a few years. But, having the same sentiment as you, I love hand flying...but sometimes it's it's not prudent...that coupled with we're always running 3-4 man crews, you're lucky to get your 3 TOs and landings in 90 days. 

Here are the most common reasons why the autopilot stays on...

1) China...nuff said lol
      seriously though, china is getting much better, but they are STRICT, broken english at the best of times, they use meters, constant micro managing, speed/alt restrictions that aren't in the box, strange clearance instructions...it can be a nightmare and hugely increase the PM and observer's workload.
2) At the end of a 16h flight, you're smoked
3) Poor ATC/radios, high density traffic, and overly complex arrivals
4) No-margin-for-error airspace: North Korea, Iran, Russia. Sometimes places you're going are *very* close to places you shouldn't be. 
 

5 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

It is absolutely impossible to maintain handflying proficiency if you never do it.  You'll be forced to do it eventually, and when you are, that won't be a low-workload, "normal" flight.  Heck of a time to see if you remember how...

You're right, but you'd be surprised. On our flight plans we can see which crew member needs a landing (who's gonna expire first). Sometimes, they'll put guys on flights specifically to get a landing. I'd say 9 out of 10 guys knock it out of the park. As an example, I had an FO that needed a landing when ANC's winds were insane a few months ago. Got a legit windshear warning on short final to 33 and went around. He tried it again and nailed it. I did his captain IOE on a different plane, so knew he was a great stick and decision maker. We had a good contingency plan too, so was comfortable in letting him do it....But it's not uncommon for people to do really well. The guys that drive me crazy are the ones that haven't flown in a while, turn the autopilot on at 200' and turn it off at 500...especially if it's a 'short' flight. Luckily, the 77 has some incredible augmentations that make flying easier...though I do miss the days of good ol flying. 

You may decide to go to the 78 eventually...you'll see 😅

16 hours ago, RobJC said:

I was using imgur and it  was only posting links, not embedding. I will try this tool, thanks.

I post all of mine through my Gmail account - because I’m lazy and I like to keep everything in one place 🤪

Drag n drop them into Photos, click to share, copy the link and paste into AvSim. 🤙

12 hours ago, RobJC said:

Maybe something like FSRealistic?

That may work. I'll check it out too, been out of the loop for a while. cheers!

12 hours ago, LRBS said:

Yep, we usually fly about 500 to 800 per year, and out of 365 days, I would say we fly about 182 days. So that 2o minutes/year gives less than 7 seconds per flight. Not to mention the 3 t.o/landings required in 90 days. That's why I suspect a typo, otherwise..................

Yep, we fly about the same...but no it's not a typo. This was brought up during recurrent training 5 years or so ago. Everyone was shocked...but the data was right there on the screen. 

Figure 12 landings/year. Autopilot connected at the minimum altitude 200-250' -- disconnected at 1000-500' and you get roughly 20 minutes per pilot. Now, of course it's an average..some fly more, some less, and doesn't include sim time. Figure 15 ish seconds to get to 200' then about 1 minute from 1000 to touchdown...that's 15 minutes annually right there lol. 

your impressions aren’t “wrong”, especially if they’re in relation to other airliner addons.🤙

The thing that’s curious to me is that you feel like the Airbuses have more “soul”. But they’re also generally the most highly automated airliners out there….?

which is, frankly, what keeps me from diving in to them (as a flight simmer - if I was IRL I’d want all the safety augmentation I could get!). 

I guess it’s some combination your familiarity with the Hi Fi Airbuses, and the lesser sounds of the PMDG…?

I would give it at LEAST a few more flights - sometimes it takes awhile for an addon to “click” and become enjoyable. 

The thing that’s great is we know it’s a HIGHLY accurate simulation, so whatever time you spend in it is well spent. 

it may also end up that you never connect with it. My sim hangar is littered with addons like that,FWIW.

and that’s okay, because we do this for FUN, so fly the ones that speak to you, and put the others away, as long as you’ve given them a fair shake 🤙

And here we go, taking AI for granted or Reddit.

 

Beyond the regulatory requirements, each airplane's autopilot performance and company SOP, we can arrive at different numbers. 

 

 @V1ROTA7E very well listed the most important reasons we take into consideration. Most of these highlights are often in SOPs.

 

When AI answers " Key Differences in Autopilot Usage:

Engagement Timing: On long-haul flights, autopilot is often engaged just 500 feet above the ground after takeoff. Short-haul pilots tend to fly manually to higher altitudes to maintain currency.

" ....

Not a correct answer, engagement has nothing to do with long or short flights. 

 

Again, look at  @V1ROTA7E  statement for reasoning.

 

Yes, between us, there are smooth as silk pilots and rough ones. Do the passengers notice a rough or smooth ride? Yes. Do they know why? NO. Do they know when the autopilot is on or off? NO.

 

Regarding currency, we, as pilots, are mindful of the 3 take-offs and landings in 90 days, as also watched by scheduling and dispatch.

 

Now, many airlines have relief cruise pilots who are used when we take breaks; those guys usually do not meet the 90-day currency requirement and end up in the sim for the 3 bounces.

 

As @Stearmandriver mentioned, we have people flying manually up to the cruise if there are no so-called "known threats".

@V1ROTA7E

Thanks for the write-up. I enjoyed and learned from it...!

3 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

Are you saying that PMDG do not simulate any "crazy minutiae" of details in their products?

My comment had nothing to do with PMDG as a developer and more so with JYW’s comment. 
 

We sometimes get people asking for certain things fixed or improved in an addon and someone pipes in that it’s unrealistic to expect. Which I think is a lazy answer, I mean PMDG’s own door logic is so complex that it doesn’t jive well with GSX. So I don’t at all think LRBS’s request is unrealistic to request of PMDG, considering PMDG’s own capability to demonstrate complex details in their addons.

10 minutes ago, LRBS said:

And here we go, taking AI for granted or Reddit.

 

@LRBS: Does my below statement sound like, I take AI for granted? No, I use it but never take it for granted. That would be actually against the principle of usage of AI.

"It's of course understood that while AI is becoming exceedingly (and scaringly) powerful, its feedback must be evaluated with human judgement."

14 hours ago, LRBS said:

As I mentioned, for some, not knowing how it works is fine.

And you are so wrong about the second statement: iFly737, Fenix, and even that A380 freeware emulate many of their systems very well, regardless of price. Also, those are similar software for the same simulator and consumer desktops.

This is so disappointing. When you refuse to acknowledge or don't understand those issues, you label them "examples of unrealistic expectations." 

its because they are PMDG Fans and wont accept any criticism of PMDG Products  and accept there are better developers 

Edited February 26Feb 26 by jason74

33 minutes ago, P_7878 said:

 

@LRBS: Does my below statement sound like, I take AI for granted? No, I use it but never take it for granted. That would be actually against the principle of usage of AI.

"It's of course understood that while AI is becoming exceedingly (and scaringly) powerful, its feedback must be evaluated with human judgement."

I'm sorry. It seems I expressed that poorly. I didn't mean to suggest you took it for granted. Sorry for the confusion. 

 

2 hours ago, LRBS said:

As @Stearmandriver mentioned, we have people flying manually up to the cruise if there are no so-called "known threats".

That's understood and accepted. No questions about it...

However, all I was saying is that there are fundamentally different factors and considerations in play (technical and regulatory), in the flying of a 737-800 vs that of e.g., a 777-X, on which I hope to fly with LH next year ...🙂...since the U.S. Majors are not acquiring it yet. That's ironic because I used to switch to UA/AA 777s because LH (a diehard A330/A340 operator) would not fly me on a 777 Pax...🙂...they operated the 777s only for freight.

Anyway, the engine itself of a 777-X will be comparable in size to the entire fuselage of a 737. So, extrapolating the (perfectly valid) practice in the operation of one, to the other, without full awareness, may not be prudent, that's all.

I have the highest respect for all pilots, that take my (and my family's) life into their hands, while transporting us from one place to another, irrespective of whether I fly 100 miles or 8,000 miles, in the (little) ERJs and CRJs of United Express, or the 748Is of Lufthansa.

So, thank you, Sir.

Edited February 26Feb 26 by P_7878

56 minutes ago, LRBS said:

I'm sorry. It seems I expressed that poorly. I didn't mean to suggest you took it for granted. Sorry for the confusion. 

 

There is absolutely no need to apologize. We are all professionals, just in different domains of expertise.

You folks fly the real thing, and most of us here fly 2D pictures of the real thing on a home computer (in my case on a 4K TV; I'm on Xbox).

So, around here, you folks rule...🙂...and ought to...