We’re nearly a quarter into 2026 and I’ve been waiting for a few of my fav aircraft to get native 2024 updates (iFly 737, Kodiak, H145) and it seems like it’s taking forever or may never actually happen (in the case of the H145). Is it just my fav aircraft? Or are others in the same boat?

Is 2024 just not that popular? Or is it stupidly hard to update aircraft for? Or maybe there’s nothing to be gained by updating these aircraft to the new sim?

Also what is the current state of ATC in 2024… have they addressed any of the longstanding issues? (I’ve also been waiting a long time for BATC to add VFR and lost hope they will ever do anything).

This whole hobby seems to move at a terrible snails pace.

 

10 minutes ago, Virtual-Chris said:

 

This whole hobby seems to move at a terrible snails pace.

 

This isn't FSX anymore though.  For example, even making liveries is much more complex and time consuming than previous Microsoft simulators.  Making aircraft is vastly more time consuming.   As for the H145, HPG lost their main dev, Dave, the brains behind the 145, 160 (and 225).  Does the 145 not work in 2024?  For the Kodiak, they show plenty of updates on Discord - many developers rely on Discord nowadays... so head over to the SWS discord for updates.

ATC in 2020 and 2024 isn't great imo.  It's okay for VFR flight imo, but not very solid for IFR.  If you only fly airliners, BATC would generally be an improvement over default.  If you're a GA guy like me, give it a skip for now (no VFR like you mentioned, but IFR point to point is a struggle bus).

 I think the hobby is moving really fast...  There was a list recently of upcoming aircraft for 2026...  I think I counted over 40 🙂

Edited March 12Mar 12 by ryanbatc

30 minutes ago, ryanbatc said:

This isn't FSX anymore though.  For example, even making liveries is much more complex and time consuming than previous Microsoft simulators.  Making aircraft is vastly more time consuming.   As for the H145, HPG lost their main dev, Dave, the brains behind the 145, 160 (and 225).  Does the 145 not work in 2024?  For the Kodiak, they show plenty of updates on Discord - many developers rely on Discord nowadays... so head over to the SWS discord for updates.

ATC in 2020 and 2024 isn't great imo.  It's okay for VFR flight imo, but not very solid for IFR.  If you only fly airliners, BATC would generally be an improvement over default.  If you're a GA guy like me, give it a skip for now (no VFR like you mentioned, but IFR point to point is a struggle bus).

 I think the hobby is moving really fast...  There was a list recently of upcoming aircraft for 2026...  I think I counted over 40 🙂

Thanks. I’m aware of the status of the items I mentioned, but even if the Kodiak drops tomorrow… is 18 months a reasonable amount of time to update an aircraft that was already working… just not natively? I guess you’re saying it is.

It seems poor to me, that Microsoft would create such an upgrade chasm that it takes 2 years for studios to update their existing products to work properly with the new version of the sim. But there also doesn’t appear to be any sense of urgency on the part of studios either. The most logical conclusion to draw from that is there’s very little money to be made. Is that true? Is 2024 not been as popular?

39 minutes ago, Virtual-Chris said:

We’re nearly a quarter into 2026 and I’ve been waiting for a few of my fav aircraft to get native 2024 updates (iFly 737, Kodiak, H145) and it seems like it’s taking forever or may never actually happen (in the case of the H145). Is it just my fav aircraft? Or are others in the same boat?

Is 2024 just not that popular? Or is it stupidly hard to update aircraft for? Or maybe there’s nothing to be gained by updating these aircraft to the new sim?

Also what is the current state of ATC in 2024… have they addressed any of the longstanding issues? (I’ve also been waiting a long time for BATC to add VFR and lost hope they will ever do anything).

This whole hobby seems to move at a terrible snails pace.

 

Dude, the H145,160 are operating fine in 2024. What are you expecting from 2024 that's not already available. Developers have to rewrite code to make things work properly in 2024. To infer stupidity just because you're impatient doesn't justify your take.  I'm some developers has more important things to do that support aircraft or scenery for flight simulation most have full time jobs and family. Just be patient.

12 minutes ago, Bigmack said:

Dude, the H145,160 are operating fine in 2024. What are you expecting from 2024 that's not already available. Developers have to rewrite code to make things work properly in 2024. To infer stupidity just because you're impatient doesn't justify your take.  I'm some developers has more important things to do that support aircraft or scenery for flight simulation most have full time jobs and family. Just be patient.

There is an issue with the H145 stability in 2024 but the developer is gone so it may never see an update I guess. Not sure if he was Hype or Hype will survive or what.
 

Part of my point is I’m not sure if I’m being unreasonable or not. You think I am being unreasonable, and maybe I am… but it’s been a couple years now since 2024 was news.   What is a reasonable time line to expect a 2020 aircraft to be updated to 2024? 

1 hour ago, Virtual-Chris said:

It seems poor to me, that Microsoft would create such an upgrade chasm that it takes 2 years for studios to update their existing products to work properly with the new version of the sim. But there also doesn’t appear to be any sense of urgency on the part of studios either. The most logical conclusion to draw from that is there’s very little money to be made.

There seems to be more incentive for studios to take their time rather than to update their products quickly:

• There is indeed money to be made: studios can continue selling their 2020 products in 2024.
• They can focus on releasing new products (A2A released the Aerostar before the Comanche native update, for instance).
• The MSFS SDK receives improvements/additions with each sim update (whether devs actually implement the improvements is a topic for another day).
• Each sim update makes the sim more stable/performant (lots of folks didn't make the switch to 2024 until SU4 was released).

I'd rather studios take their time and do things right, rather than release a half-baked "native 2024" update. Take a look at the Just Flight Warrior/Arrow/Tomahawk: "Native" 2024 planes, but you can't remove the chokes and tiedowns during walkaround and can only do it via their custom tablet. Sure, they get that "2024" badge in the marketplace, but do they deserve it?

In the end, you can always vote with your wallet. If a studio doesn't pay attention to their old products, maybe think twice about purchasing something day one when they release something new. I bought the Tomahawk at a deep discount and would have felt ripped off paying full price for a "native" 2024 plane without the native 2024 features.

2 hours ago, Funky D said:

There seems to be more incentive for studios to take their time rather than to update their products quickly:

• There is indeed money to be made: studios can continue selling their 2020 products in 2024.
• They can focus on releasing new products (A2A released the Aerostar before the Comanche native update, for instance).
• The MSFS SDK receives improvements/additions with each sim update (whether devs actually implement the improvements is a topic for another day).
• Each sim update makes the sim more stable/performant (lots of folks didn't make the switch to 2024 until SU4 was released).

I'd rather studios take their time and do things right, rather than release a half-baked "native 2024" update. Take a look at the Just Flight Warrior/Arrow/Tomahawk: "Native" 2024 planes, but you can't remove the chokes and tiedowns during walkaround and can only do it via their custom tablet. Sure, they get that "2024" badge in the marketplace, but do they deserve it?

In the end, you can always vote with your wallet. If a studio doesn't pay attention to their old products, maybe think twice about purchasing something day one when they release something new. I bought the Tomahawk at a deep discount and would have felt ripped off paying full price for a "native" 2024 plane without the native 2024 features.

Yeah, I think you’re somewhat confirming my suspicions… by saying most gamers didn’t switch to 2024 until SU4 says the upgrade adoption has been very slow… and that means there hasn’t been a lot of demand or money to be made with 2024 native aircraft. 

Maybe things will accelerate now if there’s a lot more people switching to 2024 after the last update. 

I think it’s probably not good for the long term health of the ecosystem for upgrade cycles to be so drawn out. If it takes two to three years after release of a major sim update to really attract simmers and devs to the new platform I can’t see MS/Asobo continuing to invest this heavily for such an extended ROI. 

Edited March 12Mar 12 by Virtual-Chris

The SWS native 24 Kodiak is being worked on, check out the SWS discord.  There's a lot more going on than just porting it to 2024, they are re-writing a bunch of systems.  It sounds like it is going to be a great update when it hits.  It sounds like they are doing a lot more than just adding the usual walkaround click spots.  

Regardless, the Kodiak works just fine in 2024 right now, as-is.  

Most active developers have a Discord where they provide regular updates.  Discord isn't always ideal for this, but that's the direction everyone is going.  

Edited March 12Mar 12 by kerosene31

If people think that true developers have more important things to do than support their products, we're facing real issues. Such an attitude is immature. It's part of their responsibilities to stand behind their products and business models. This is how they sustain themselves and their families, unless they work part-time. 

It's important to realize that MSFS 2024 is still in beta. While trying to fix problems, they also introduce new ones. The SDK has many features that don't work as promised, and many entries are poorly explained, causing developers to 'GUESS' their purpose. I doubt that current management and developers at ASOBO will ever fully exit the BETA stage. I hope I am wrong. 

13 hours ago, Virtual-Chris said:

Is 2024 just not that popular? Or is it stupidly hard to update aircraft for? Or maybe there’s nothing to be gained by updating these aircraft to the new sim?

A large plethora of aircraft have been made native to FS2024, like loads. I understand the ones you mentioned but that's not the general consensus with regarding to 2024 support.

13 hours ago, Virtual-Chris said:

Also what is the current state of ATC in 2024… have they addressed any of the longstanding issues? (I’ve also been waiting a long time for BATC to add VFR and lost hope they will ever do anything).

Asobo has been busy working on improving performance and bug fixes with the most recent SUs, all of the past SUs have just been bugfixes and performance improvements. We can expect new features in upcoming SUs but I'm happy that they focused on fixing things before adding new stuff.

As for BATC it's been mostly the same thing, just 2 weeks ago they pushed into experimental a massive refactor of sequencing, vectoring and local voice models to improve the ATC experience. However, VFR is slowly in the works.

 

13 hours ago, Virtual-Chris said:

This whole hobby seems to move at a terrible snails pace.

It always has been relatively. I think iniBuilds is the bit of an exception but a lot of things are measured in years not months with this hobby.

4 hours ago, kerosene31 said:

The SWS native 24 Kodiak is being worked on, check out the SWS discord.  There's a lot more going on than just porting it to 2024, they are re-writing a bunch of systems.  It sounds like it is going to be a great update when it hits.  It sounds like they are doing a lot more than just adding the usual walkaround click spots.  

Regardless, the Kodiak works just fine in 2024 right now, as-is.  

Most active developers have a Discord where they provide regular updates.  Discord isn't always ideal for this, but that's the direction everyone is going.  

I’m aware of the work on the Kodiak. But I’m surprised given how popular it was, that it’s taken nearly two years to do this overhaul. Last time I flew it there were still issues with the flight model at lower torque settings. 

3 hours ago, LRBS said:

If people think that true developers have more important things to do than support their products, we're facing real issues. Such an attitude is immature. It's part of their responsibilities to stand behind their products and business models. This is how they sustain themselves and their families, unless they work part-time. 

It's important to realize that MSFS 2024 is still in beta. While trying to fix problems, they also introduce new ones. The SDK has many features that don't work as promised, and many entries are poorly explained, causing developers to 'GUESS' their purpose. I doubt that current management and developers at ASOBO will ever fully exit the BETA stage. I hope I am wrong. 

I wonder if this pattern is sustainable… if MS/Asobo release an overhaul to the sim every 4 years and it takes 3+ years to get it stable (we’re now almost two years in and not there yet), and very few upgrade until it’s stable it creates a massive multi-year lag between investment and return on that investment not just for MS but for studios doing plane updates. Are we going to be facing yet another sim overhaul in two years, after most have just updated to 2024? How is that sustainable? 

3 hours ago, Lucky38i said:

A large plethora of aircraft have been made native to FS2024, like loads. I understand the ones you mentioned but that's not the general consensus with regarding to 2024 support.

Asobo has been busy working on improving performance and bug fixes with the most recent SUs, all of the past SUs have just been bugfixes and performance improvements. We can expect new features in upcoming SUs but I'm happy that they focused on fixing things before adding new stuff.

As for BATC it's been mostly the same thing, just 2 weeks ago they pushed into experimental a massive refactor of sequencing, vectoring and local voice models to improve the ATC experience. However, VFR is slowly in the works.

 

It always has been relatively. I think iniBuilds is the bit of an exception but a lot of things are measured in years not months with this hobby.

Yeah, maybe it’s just the aircraft I’m interested in that are lagging on updates. But it felt like things moved a lot quicker in 2020-2023... There was a lot of momentum.

Do you think MS considers 2024 a success? Will they do another overhaul in 2028?

33 minutes ago, Virtual-Chris said:

I wonder if this pattern is sustainable… if MS/Asobo release an overhaul to the sim every 4 years and it takes 3+ years to get it stable (we’re now almost two years in and not there yet), and very few upgrade until it’s stable it creates a massive multi-year lag between investment and return on that investment not just for MS but for studios doing plane updates. Are we going to be facing yet another sim overhaul in two years, after most have just updated to 2024? How is that sustainable? 

2020 is still fully supported, so I don't see the issue.  That's even assuming that MS keeps up with the same cycle (that is not a given, 2 releases is not necessarily a pattern).  What's not sustainable?  We've got both sims supported.  

I honestly thought we were long past these discussions.  You choose when you upgrade.  Nobody is forcing you.  Many people still fly 2020 today, and MS still supports it.  

17 hours ago, Virtual-Chris said:

It seems poor to me, that Microsoft would create such an upgrade chasm that it takes 2 years for studios to update their existing products to work properly with the new version of the sim.

That's not down to Microsoft though.

It's just that some developers were fantastic and got compatible or native versions out quickly.  Some took long and some charged.  Then there is SWS (Kodiak dev) who have been staggeringly disinterested. I own a lot of their products in 2020 (Van RV10, Vans RV14, Van RV8, PC12, Kodiak, etc) and none of them have 2024 native versions yet.  Worse than that, some of them aren't even properly compatible. For example, their config tablet that they use in some of their aircraft doesn't work in 2024.  So you have a black, dead tablet in those planes.

I like their addons, but SWS have been the worst of the worst where 2024 is concerned.

That's not MS's fault.  It's just a lack of motivation and interest from devs like SWS.

31 minutes ago, Virtual-Chris said:

I’m aware of the work on the Kodiak. But I’m surprised given how popular it was, that it’s taken nearly two years to do this overhaul. Last time I flew it there were still issues with the flight model at lower torque settings. 

I wonder if this pattern is sustainable… if MS/Asobo release an overhaul to the sim every 4 years and it takes 3+ years to get it stable (we’re now almost two years in and not there yet), and very few upgrade until it’s stable it creates a massive multi-year lag between investment and return on that investment not just for MS but for studios doing plane updates. Are we going to be facing yet another sim overhaul in two years, after most have just updated to 2024? How is that sustainable? 

(shrugs)  It's been sustainable for the last 45 years.

I mean we were used to a new sim sometimes even every TWO years, so 4 years is nothing.   Flight sims are perpetually in beta, all of them, XPlane, P3D included.   Updating and breaking stuff isn't the sole province of Asobo.  It was worse 25 years ago, they'd put out a new sim with stutters, and not fix it.

But people can fly what they want, many people stayed on FS2004 for a long time.  Some people stayed on FSX and never went to P3D.

Another factor in what you describe is that all of us reading this expect a lot of fidelity from a sim and an add-on.  Getting our expected level of fidelity takes a lot of time...unfortunately, we've kind of driven these long wait times/transition lagging ourselves.  Someone who is more casual with their flight simulation likely does not suffer from this problem.