Check your OC3, my 777 and 738 were just updated, may also apply to other 73x versions, I assume

777 // This is build 2.4.141.

This build brings in mostly minor changes that are targeted toward continual small product improvements:

• Improved debug logging capability for use by Navigraph

• Fixes to the nav data management by the tablet

• Fixes to the weight & balance functions of the tablet

• Flight plan import WASM crash protections

738 // This is Build 4.00.0052

This build brings a few strategic changes to benefit some of our development partners:

• Improved debug logging capability for use by Navigraph

• Additional capabilities specific to hardware developers (non public)

• Ability for external apps to operate guarded switches with a single API event call.

There have been continued efforts to mitigate the impact of WASM crashes through the use of additional logging and some cleanups that, with some voodoo, caffeine and a bit of luck might mitigate a wasm crash or two.

Corrections from our issue tracking system:

17299: [Aircraft Model - Geometry] Aircarft bounces around when etner the cockpit on initial Load (jbrown)
17307: [Aircraft Model - Geometry] gear cover hinge position incorrect (jbrown)
17304: [Aircraft Model - Geometry] External models inconsistanices post HDU (jbrown)
17295: [Aircraft Model - Liveries] EXIT placard on 2L door damaged (jbrown)
17296: [Aircraft Model - Geometry] APU Drain mast missing 900ER (jbrown)
17287: [Aircraft Model - Liveries] Missing Lav and water pipes (jbrown)
17288: [Aircraft Model - Geometry] Flap Fairing clipping (jbrown)
17286: [Aircraft Model - Passenger Cabin] 900ER High density Config missing row 36 (jbrown)
17270: [Aircraft Model - Passenger Cabin] Gaps Toilet housing (jbrown)
17268: [Aircraft Model - Passenger Cabin] Doors are dark even with max lighting (jbrown)
17274: [Aircraft Model - Geometry] Airstair hatch not opening and airstair controls lack animation (jbrown)
17189: [General - Flight Model] Adjusting low speed buffet for Flap>5 positions (emvaos)
17273: [Aircraft Model - Geometry] Cargo hold texturing issues (jbrown)
17272: [Aircraft Model - Geometry] Hovering Strakes issues (jbrown)
17269: [Aircraft Model - Geometry] RA and VHF 3 antennas positions in the HDU (jbrown)
17278: [Aircraft Model - Geometry] HDU livery UVS are incorrect (jbrown)
17283: [Aircraft Model - Geometry] B51 - Flickering texture on press outflow valve (jbrown)
17277: [FMS - Initialization] SHORT TRIP ALT calculation now fully utilises Simbrief wind/ISA (emvaos)

So, no fix for the 777 FBW system then?

9 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

So, no fix for the 777 FBW system then?

This issue has been beat to death here and on the PMDG forums. Don't think your going to see a so called "fix" because I'm not sure PMDG considers it "broken".

The plane can be flown in the game just fine with some adjustments to trim being done manually.

35 minutes ago, tpete61 said:

This issue has been beat to death here and on the PMDG forums. Don't think your going to see a so called "fix" because I'm not sure PMDG considers it "broken".

The plane can be flown in the game just fine with some adjustments to trim being done manually.

I agree. I don't have any issues with the FBW system. If it's broken, I can't reproduce it. Thanks for the update heads up.

Edited Wednesday at 05:12 PM2 days by Bigmack

DC6 has an update too.

10 hours ago, Bigmack said:

I agree. I don't have any issues with the FBW system. If it's broken, I can't reproduce it. Thanks for the update heads up.

yep same here cant see any issues with it which suggest its all on which pc its installed on

I haven't noticed any issues with the 777 here. Flies great.

Same here, zero issues with FBW. In fact its the only aircraft I've been flying outside of my bush trips!

20 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

So, no fix for the 777 FBW system then?

Since you understand the issue, I want to summarize areas where the PMDG coding needs improvement and offer guidance for those unfamiliar, thinking that there is no issue, at least for this TRS, in simplified mode for now. 

The Boeing 777's Trim Reference Speed (TRS) or speed-trim function is one of the most misunderstood aspects of the fly-by-wire system.

What the real Boeing 777 does

Unlike conventional aircraft, the 777's elevators are controlled through the FBW computers. The aircraft is designed so that the pilot does not continuously trim for speed changes in the traditional sense.

The 777 automatically establishes and maintains a trimmed speed based on the current flight condition.

In practice

Suppose you're hand-flying:

• The aircraft is stabilized at 250 knots.

• You release the control column.

• The FBW system trims the aircraft so that 250 knots becomes the reference speed.

Now:

• If a gust increases speed above 250 knots, the airplane naturally tends to return toward the trimmed speed.

• If speed decreases below 250 knots, the airplane tends to pitch down and accelerate back toward the trimmed speed.

The airplane behaves as though it "remembers" the speed at which it was trimmed.

This is one reason many pilots describe the 777 as exceptionally stable and easy to hand-fly.

---

What the pilot feels

When you pull and hold back pressure:

• The aircraft slows down.

• As long as you hold the pressure, the new speed is not yet established.

When you relax the pressure:

• The FBW system gradually trims the aircraft.

• The new speed becomes the trim reference speed.

The airplane now tends to maintain that speed.

This is very different from a conventional Boeing like the 737 where trim primarily relieves control forces but does not create the same speed-stability behavior.

---

During approach

The system continuously adjusts for:

• Flap extension

• Gear extension

• Thrust changes

• CG changes

• Fuel burn

The pilot rarely needs to think about trim.

The airplane simply remains close to the desired speed when properly configured.

---

What is missing in PMDG's 777

This is one of the areas frequently noted by real 777 pilots and experienced sim users.

Missing or buggy behavior

The PMDG 777 does not correctly reproduce the real airplane's:

1. Trim Reference Speed logic

2. Speed stability characteristics

3. Column-force-to-speed relationship

4. Dynamic FBW trimming laws

5. Pitch/speed coupling

In the real aircraft:

• Pull and release → a new trimmed speed is established.

• Push and release → a different trimmed speed is established.

• The aircraft then tends to return to that speed.

In PMDG:

• The speed-hold tendency is weaker.

• Pitch attitude tends to dominate rather than trim-reference speed.

• Changes in speed do not always produce the same natural restoring tendencies seen in the real aircraft.

Unfortunately, I don't think PMDG is capable or willing to fix these issues, including even the LNAV problem.

14 minutes ago, LRBS said:

Since you understand the issue, I want to summarize areas where the PMDG coding needs improvement and offer guidance for those unfamiliar, thinking that there is no issue, at least for this TRS, in simplified mode for now. 

The Boeing 777's Trim Reference Speed (TRS) or speed-trim function is one of the most misunderstood aspects of the fly-by-wire system.

What the real Boeing 777 does

Unlike conventional aircraft, the 777's elevators are controlled through the FBW computers. The aircraft is designed so that the pilot does not continuously trim for speed changes in the traditional sense.

The 777 automatically establishes and maintains a trimmed speed based on the current flight condition.

In practice

Suppose you're hand-flying:

• The aircraft is stabilized at 250 knots.

• You release the control column.

• The FBW system trims the aircraft so that 250 knots becomes the reference speed.

Now:

• If a gust increases speed above 250 knots, the airplane naturally tends to return toward the trimmed speed.

• If speed decreases below 250 knots, the airplane tends to pitch down and accelerate back toward the trimmed speed.

The airplane behaves as though it "remembers" the speed at which it was trimmed.

This is one reason many pilots describe the 777 as exceptionally stable and easy to hand-fly.

---

What the pilot feels

When you pull and hold back pressure:

• The aircraft slows down.

• As long as you hold the pressure, the new speed is not yet established.

When you relax the pressure:

• The FBW system gradually trims the aircraft.

• The new speed becomes the trim reference speed.

The airplane now tends to maintain that speed.

This is very different from a conventional Boeing like the 737 where trim primarily relieves control forces but does not create the same speed-stability behavior.

---

During approach

The system continuously adjusts for:

• Flap extension

• Gear extension

• Thrust changes

• CG changes

• Fuel burn

The pilot rarely needs to think about trim.

The airplane simply remains close to the desired speed when properly configured.

---

What is missing in PMDG's 777

This is one of the areas frequently noted by real 777 pilots and experienced sim users.

Missing or buggy behavior

The PMDG 777 does not correctly reproduce the real airplane's:

1. Trim Reference Speed logic

2. Speed stability characteristics

3. Column-force-to-speed relationship

4. Dynamic FBW trimming laws

5. Pitch/speed coupling

In the real aircraft:

• Pull and release → a new trimmed speed is established.

• Push and release → a different trimmed speed is established.

• The aircraft then tends to return to that speed.

In PMDG:

• The speed-hold tendency is weaker.

• Pitch attitude tends to dominate rather than trim-reference speed.

• Changes in speed do not always produce the same natural restoring tendencies seen in the real aircraft.

Unfortunately, I don't think PMDG is capable or willing to fix these issues, including even the LNAV problem.

Sorry you are experiencing this issue, But I rarely to never have to adjust trim during TO or landing. It automictically adjust itself and maintain the set speed I set normally around 225ks until I clean up the flight controls. If I'm under Fl100, I increase speed to 250kts, once I cross 10000 ft, It climbs to my set altitude, all by itself and auto trim is running through the process. I never touch the trim all the way to touchdown. I see no pitching up and down. Not sure why you and few others are seeing this. Maybe your CG is off. But you already shown your distaste for PMDG in another thread, why are you trying to highjack this one with your distain.

21 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

So, no fix for the 777 FBW system then?

Nor for the cabin lighting being broken since forever :(

)though, like others, I too do not have issues with the FBW system on the 777. )

Edited yesterday at 01:44 PM1 day by UAL4life

21 minutes ago, Bigmack said:

Sorry you are experiencing this issue, But I rarely to never have to adjust trim during TO or landing. It automictically adjust itself and maintain the set speed I set normally around 225ks until I clean up the flight controls. If I'm under Fl100, I increase speed to 250kts, once I cross 10000 ft, It climbs to my set altitude, all by itself and auto trim is running through the process. I never touch the trim all the way to touchdown. I see no pitching up and down. Not sure why you and few others are seeing this. Maybe your CG is off. But you already shown your distaste for PMDG in another thread, why are you trying to highjack this one with your distain.

Having spent a considerable amount of time flying the actual aircraft, I am confident in my ability to set the CG correctly.

More importantly, this is not about disliking or "hijacking" anything. It is about providing information based on official documentation and practical flying experience. If sharing factual information, highlighting discrepancies, and hoping that known bugs will eventually be corrected is somehow viewed with disdain, then I find that perspective quite troubling.

Unfortunately, that appears to be the only conclusion you have drawn from the discussion, which says more about your approach to the matter than about the points being raised.

Actually, I enjoyed your explanation of the way the FBW should work on the 777F. It was very informative and I enjoy reading other perspectives on the matter. I'm setting up a flight now in the 777F, from KMEM to PANC. I will take noticed on how the TO performance goes and report back

1 hour ago, LRBS said:

Since you understand the issue, I want to summarize areas where the PMDG coding needs improvement and offer guidance for those unfamiliar, thinking that there is no issue, at least for this TRS, in simplified mode for now. 

The Boeing 777's Trim Reference Speed (TRS) or speed-trim function is one of the most misunderstood aspects of the fly-by-wire system.

What the real Boeing 777 does

Unlike conventional aircraft, the 777's elevators are controlled through the FBW computers. The aircraft is designed so that the pilot does not continuously trim for speed changes in the traditional sense.

The 777 automatically establishes and maintains a trimmed speed based on the current flight condition.

In practice

Suppose you're hand-flying:

• The aircraft is stabilized at 250 knots.

• You release the control column.

• The FBW system trims the aircraft so that 250 knots becomes the reference speed.

Now:

• If a gust increases speed above 250 knots, the airplane naturally tends to return toward the trimmed speed.

• If speed decreases below 250 knots, the airplane tends to pitch down and accelerate back toward the trimmed speed.

The airplane behaves as though it "remembers" the speed at which it was trimmed.

This is one reason many pilots describe the 777 as exceptionally stable and easy to hand-fly.

---

What the pilot feels

When you pull and hold back pressure:

• The aircraft slows down.

• As long as you hold the pressure, the new speed is not yet established.

When you relax the pressure:

• The FBW system gradually trims the aircraft.

• The new speed becomes the trim reference speed.

The airplane now tends to maintain that speed.

This is very different from a conventional Boeing like the 737 where trim primarily relieves control forces but does not create the same speed-stability behavior.

---

During approach

The system continuously adjusts for:

• Flap extension

• Gear extension

• Thrust changes

• CG changes

• Fuel burn

The pilot rarely needs to think about trim.

The airplane simply remains close to the desired speed when properly configured.

---

What is missing in PMDG's 777

This is one of the areas frequently noted by real 777 pilots and experienced sim users.

Missing or buggy behavior

The PMDG 777 does not correctly reproduce the real airplane's:

1. Trim Reference Speed logic

2. Speed stability characteristics

3. Column-force-to-speed relationship

4. Dynamic FBW trimming laws

5. Pitch/speed coupling

In the real aircraft:

• Pull and release → a new trimmed speed is established.

• Push and release → a different trimmed speed is established.

• The aircraft then tends to return to that speed.

In PMDG:

• The speed-hold tendency is weaker.

• Pitch attitude tends to dominate rather than trim-reference speed.

• Changes in speed do not always produce the same natural restoring tendencies seen in the real aircraft.

Unfortunately, I don't think PMDG is capable or willing to fix these issues, including even the LNAV problem.

It's a game, not a level D simulator.

I think your expectation is totally unrealistic.

As you can see the majority of people on this thread don't see it as a problem.

I think you are beating a dead horse!

Edited yesterday at 02:16 PM1 day by tpete61

And I would like to add something that I believe is important.

I don't know whether you currently fly, or have flown, the real aircraft. While I haven't flown the 777 for several years, I remain in contact with two friends who are current and qualified on the airplane. Both of them have independently raised concerns that closely mirror the issues being discussed here. Similar feedback can also be found on the PMDG forums, where other users have reported nearly identical observations.

To ensure the issues were not related to my own setup, I took extensive steps after the latest update. I reformatted my PC, updated all drivers, recalibrated all peripherals, avoided any system tweaks or overclocking, and performed a completely clean installation of MSFS 2024. The only add-ons installed were the PMDG 737 and PMDG 777.

Despite all of that, the same issues remain present, not only for me but also according to individuals with real-world experience and qualifications on the aircraft.

I fully understand that some users may not be bothered by these issues, and that's perfectly fine. My intention is not to diminish anyone's enjoyment of the product. Quite the opposite—I have always appreciated PMDG's products and want to see them continue to improve. My concern is simply that, in recent years, I feel some aspects have drifted away from the standards that originally made these products so highly regarded.

Of course, not everyone will notice the same things, but the fact that some users do not experience or recognize an issue does not necessarily mean it isn't there. My comments are made in the spirit of constructive feedback and with the hope that the product can continue to improve over time.

That's really all there is to it—nothing more than a genuine desire to see the product become even better.