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kevinc5

B 707 recommendations?

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I see that there are several 707's and DC 8's available from the Historic Jetliners Group and a payware 707 from Flight 1. Any recommendations? Thanks

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Sadly the only game in town visually is CaptainSim's version (Flight1 sells it as well I believe). I here the FDE (flight model) is terrible...

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Try the HJG versions and see how you like them. The group specializes in these aircraft, and they aren't bad at all - they're also free.DJ

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I have the Captain Sim 707, and though some are not happy with it, I am.It looks good, flies well (as if I would know) and has a great VC. It's a lot of fun to fly. And not one digital readout in the whole bloody thing. Just dials and gauges. Love it. A real classic.

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I am puzzled by the searing criticism of certain CS products. I bought the 727 a very long time ago and thought it was excellent. Especially the flight model. At that time, it appears a lot of other folks felt similarly. However, when the Dreamfleet 727 came out, it seems that a lot of people dumped the CS model and said it was total $#!t and rejoiced over the DF model instead. I continued to fly the CS three holer because it was great and I found it particularly good on the power curve when low and slow--the risks of a stall were very high which I thought was realistic. Generally, the 727 handled very well for me.Over time I saw a lot of very mixed comments about the flight model of the CS 707 from "superb" to "sodding awful". How is this range of acclaim/criticism so possible ? I get the impression that a lot of it has to do with being "flavor of the month" or not as the case may be. If I were a FS commercial a/c developer, I would feel very baffled, really.JS

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>I see that there are several 707's and DC 8's available from>the Historic Jetliners Group and a payware 707 from Flight 1. >Any recommendations? >Thanks> I highly recommend CS's 707. Why bother with ordinary 707's if you can fly the wonder jet that CS has modelled. CS's version has two unique features that you won't find on any other model:First of all, CS has modelled what I call the "Willie Nelson goes to Jamaica" edition: upon engaging the autopilot, the plane will bob up and down just like Willie Nelson on ganja.Secondly, it appears that Boeing, in a spectacular feat of engineering ingenuity, have managed to slap three engines on a four engine plane. (You'll realize this as you start the engine and listen to the cockpit voices). Taken together with the "thick manuals", the superb support, and the promise of a 9,000 gigabyte update - how can you, I ask you, go wrong with this addon?ricardo

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Between this and your Ariane recommendation, you are on a roll today!DJ :-lol

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>>I am puzzled by the searing criticism of certain CS products. >I bought the 727 a very long time ago and thought it was>excellent. Especially the flight model. At that time, it>appears a lot of other folks felt similarly. >>However, when the Dreamfleet 727 came out, it seems that a lot>of people dumped the CS model and said it was total $#!t and>rejoiced over the DF model instead. I continued to fly the CS>three holer because it was great and I found it particularly>good on the power curve when low and slow--the risks of a>stall were very high which I thought was realistic. >Generally, the 727 handled very well for me.>>Over time I saw a lot of very mixed comments about the flight>model of the CS 707 from "superb" to "sodding awful". >>How is this range of acclaim/criticism so possible ? I get>the impression that a lot of it has to do with being "flavor>of the month" or not as the case may be. If I were a FS>commercial a/c developer, I would feel very baffled, really.>>JSJS..I couldn't have put it any better. I agree with your observation 100%The more I read some of the crap here.. The more I am realizing that I have to try things out myself.. There is a mob mentality. People who are clueless piling on cause.. "Majority" is somehow more alluring to them. Remember.. Mediocrity is the majority.Manny

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Captain Sim is getting my $ tonite. It's a deal. Thanks Manny; good to have your voice in these forums. I actually wondered if I was gonna get flamed for my earlier post! BTW, my Triplehead gig is going amazingly well. No glitches, even with mis-matched LCs, and it just wows! me every time I boot her up -- and everybody else who sees it. I am delighted I went with TH2G rather than just a 2nd 24" LCD. I just have to instal the 707 and fly that VC in the rig. Then it'll feel like 1965 all over again, ah, the good ol' days. Can't wait.Cheers,JS

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JS ..if you liked the CS 727, you'll like the 707. Its better. The VC is more functional in the 707 than in the 727.It took me a long time to get the 707. and mind you, I bought it recently.. and I am used to PMDG and Lvd-D and yet I liked their hand flying airliner. Dirty, smokey...and challening to fly airliner. They also have tons of paint jobs. It is aged ofcourse...but still I like it.The only thing.. I have not liked about CS is their 757 for the FSX. Manny

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OK, man, just great--great. Thanks.I really dug the CS 727 and still do so if the 707 is even better and has an even more functional VC, I am gonna be VERY happy. On my rig, I hand fly as much as poss these days, and I love handling the older jets as well as the newer BOEINGs. My rig has become more than half a real-life cockpit by now. GoFlight is sending me a pedestal and that sucker is going into service the day it gets here.I confess I was kinda baffled by the dev and marketing of the CS757 and so I didn't get it yet. I might get the 757 by LEVEL-D--if they ever make it !But for now, I am just gonna sit back and wait for the Dash 80's direct descendant to wing its way to me.Appreciate your posts !JS

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I dislike Captsim Sim almost as much as i dislike FSD!!!HOWEVER... I would thoroughly reccommend their 707 on it's own merit (apart from the silly 3 engine start callouts).

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I bought the CS 707 when it was on sale for ~$10 over Christmas.Their 3D modeling is really good, and the VC looks nice.As with the 727 before it, the EPR gauges are useless...while many other producers of both payware and freeware have managed to field good custom-programmed EPR instruments, CS insists on continuing to use a variable long known to be broken in FS, and then foisting the blame on Microsoft. Unfortunately, since they use a single massive unigauge in their panels, it's not really feasible to replace the EPR gauges with a custom programmed one.You can avoid the bobbing if you're willing to load the jet to an extreme and unrealistic CG and leave it there.No complaints, though, when I bought it I already knew I was getting an incomplete abandoned project that looks good but needs a lot of work and some patience and tolerance for the absurd. In all, I think it was worth close to the $10 I paid for it.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

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Bob:Fair enough. I understand. I just want a good VC for an old steam gauge plane. I love the 727 but I really need the 707 to feel complete. I no longer do 12 hour flights in FS, no time. I practice takeoffs, climbouts, climb to cruise, descent, approach and landing (preferably in a t-storm with windshear), and do as much as possible by hand these days.JS

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>I just want a good VC for an old steam gauge plane. I love>the 727 but I really need the 707 to feel complete. I no>longer do 12 hour flights in FS, no time. I practice>takeoffs, climbouts, climb to cruise, descent, approach and>landing (preferably in a t-storm with windshear), and do as>much as possible by hand these days.I like that sort of flying too...which is why the EPR gauge is such a problem, given that it's the primary thrust reference for the JT3.It's possible to hobble along with N1 RPM, but it's intensely annoying to have the EPR gauges staring me in the face with bogus and unusable readings.CheersBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

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The value that FS9 computes for EPR is bad. I believe FS2002 had the same issue. For example, at idle on the ground I think it's around 1.6, where it should be close to 1.0.In the TinMouse II B737-200 panel, I use the mathematical relationship between the N1 RPM (corrected for pressure/temp) and EPR to compute the value displayed by the gauge.Captain Sim could have easily fixed this (and a lot of other problems) a long time ago, but they have an established track record of getting almost there and then essentially abandoning a project once released. The bearing pointer on the C-130 HSI is another case in point...identified at release, ignored in SP1, then promised for SP2 which in well over a year has not materialized.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

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However, when the Dreamfleet 727 came out, it seems that a lot of people dumped the CS model and said it was total $#!t and rejoiced over the DF model instead. I have the CS B727 - the first payware aircraft I ever bought - thus the longest lived on my system. I still fly it a few hours every month.However, the DF is a better aircraft - solely from the time angle alone if nothing else.The CS B727 is a FS2002 aircraft, patched and updated to work with FS2004.The DF B727 was designed for FS2004, with a couple years learning and experience behind it.Personally, I think people who come on these forums and demonize one product to promote another are either (1) semi-employees being compensated - maybe with free aircraft - to "sell" the new product; or (2) unsure of the worth of their purchase and can only justify it in their minds by running down other products.There are a lot of very good aircraft out there. By and large the newer the model/ release - the better the aircraft.But I strongly urge people to try a freeware if available first. Then consider buying a payware.I'm happy to see HJG getting away from FS98 aircraft panel standards and the stupid FSound.dll file with their latest panels.The Dreamfleet

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HiNice job RiccardoIt`s things like this that made up my mind to neither buy nor reccomend CS products.It`s to me incredible that they still have folks that will stick up for CS considering the way they are screwing their customers.Pete

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I once mentioned the DF727 and the CS727 together in the same post. . .All references to the DF model disappeared within an hour or two. They're s t r a n g e people. . .

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>First of all, CS has modelled what I call the "Willie Nelson>goes to Jamaica" edition: upon engaging the autopilot, the>plane will bob up and down just like Willie Nelson on ganja.>>Secondly, it appears that Boeing, in a spectacular feat of>engineering ingenuity, have managed to slap three engines on a>four engine plane. (You'll realize this as you start the>engine and listen to the cockpit voices). >>Taken together with the "thick manuals", the superb support,>and the promise of a 9,000 gigabyte update - how can you, I>ask you, go wrong with this addon?>Interesting, why did you dig up 3 months old topic? Hmmm, yes, I see, CS bashing persists....1. Just in case you do not have time I will help you. Go to CS support page http://www.captainsim.com/cgi-bin/kb.pl?p=b707&i=21 and download the patch for autopilot. I did this long time ago.2. Is the error in cockpit voices so significant that you decided to tell about it to everybody? If I ask you to name me ANY addon without bugs, you will not be able to do so.Where is this said about ...... gigabyte update? Have I missed anything? But you know I just have an impression that this kind of posts at forum are useless and non-constructive.

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>this kind of posts at forum are useless and non-constructive.>Not really. I have both the CS and the DF 727, and only fly the DF version. I would LIKE a 707, and haven't purchased the CS model because of their bad press. I wouldn't have known above the above details - and the fixes - if there was no dialogue here - right? This post has been useful for me, at least, and I now might end up buying one. Many Thanks, Dougal and Bob!

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