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Guest monsoon

Feelthere Citation X

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I see they are not goin got let us voice our opinions on their forum about this product so I guess we will have to develop a consensus here. Anyone get this product yet? How is it. It would be appreciated if your opinion comes from experience with flight sim and addons and/or real world experience. Please do not be one of these newcomers buying an addon for the first time thinking this is the greatest thing around. THAT is not very constructive here. This is the VERY first time I am holding out buying a addon. I simply got tired of being ripped off by devs that do not live up to what their product was advertised as. So you can possibly save a bunch of flight simmers a pile of money with some good criticism if you purchased this product and find it to be crap. Thanks and much appreciated.

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Having an organized and constructive thread here for the X was exactly my thought. I will purchase the X today. And I'll posting my observations and shots here.Thank you for starting this thread.Jason

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No,Keep it going, just because you 2 are associated with Feelco, not everyone is.Never seen your names on any other criticism of new releases so don't bother here.People have the right to raise issues, particularly when the support is being pushed away from feelthere on to that well known support friendly and easy to access company WILCO!!!:-hang Come on feelthere get rid of them.

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I cannot speak to the quality of FeelThere/Wilco products because I have never bought one and never will.Any company that threatens its customers with being banned from it's support forums for brining up problems with their product after purchase is never, ever going to see a penny from me.But, of course, to each of us his own choice where to shop.

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>I cannot speak to the quality of FeelThere/Wilco products>because I have never bought one and never will.>>Any company that threatens its customers with being banned>from it's support forums for brining up problems with their>product after purchase is never, ever going to see a penny>from me.>>But, of course, to each of us his own choice where to shop.I can overlook a lot for the sake of a top quality product.Not saying that this is such a product, just that past poor support is not necesarily a deal breaker for me in a future purchase.Sometimes good developers are just lousy at support.Regards.Ernie.

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I 8 foolthere:my post was in response to hugo's. hugo had assumed the X discussion was about eaglesoft's, my post was correcting him about the thread's content. he removed his post as it wasn't about the topic. i then removed mine.--

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"I can overlook a lot for the sake of a top quality product.Not saying that this is such a product, just that past poor support is not necesarily a deal breaker for me in a future purchase.Sometimes good developers are just lousy at support.Regards.Ernie."Ain't that the truth. I'm still a big Captain Sim fan, and many people here are very unhappy with their customer support. What I said about FeelThere/Wilco is nothing more than my personal opinion that others may catalog into their purchasing decisions as they see fit. I think it's good that we are able to read a variety of opinions about different developers in order to guide our hard earned dollars to the right place.

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>I 8 foolthere:>>my post was in response to hugo's. hugo had assumed the X>discussion was about eaglesoft's, my post was correcting him>about the thread's content. he removed his post as it wasn't>about the topic. i then removed mine.>>--I think everybody is welcome to discuss here about aviation :-lol that's the beauty of AVSIM ;-)Have fun guys...Andr

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Well.. I don't know about other people, but moments after I received the e-mail confirmation of purchasing the Citation X, I logged into the site to download it and my counter was at 0... It's now 5 hours later and they haven't reset it yet...We'll see how long it takes to be able to download the product!Alex

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>>Sometimes good developers are just lousy at support.>>Regards.>Ernie.I find this statement frankly astonishing. I submit that providing proper support is fully HALF that which qualifies a 'good' developer, and for THIS consumer the lack thereof is an absolute deal breaker.regards,Markhttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/a320/custbanner2.jpgPC Power Silencer 470/3.2HT/2048mb/ATI X1950pro/SB Audigy

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I was concerned looking at the engine modeling. The fans are supposed to be hidden back much further. I quess it's not that big of a deal, but with todays modeling techinics, I am suprised this detail was not replicated as in real life. I am real curious as to the overall frame rate performance,soundset, graphics and such. Anyone who does get the plane up and running, your input would be greatly appreciated. Alot of the FT product line has caused my system to struggle in the past. With the the new camera angles available in FSX, even though I use FS9, I am sure there are alot more polys here as the skin needs to remain intact from VC view. I guess I'll wait to hear what others are saying.

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I think the only reason they made the CX is because they already had the avionics, for the most part complete. Thats why the model looks so bad, another rushed release. Hopefully Eagelsoft will do the CX justice.

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I think the eaglesoft X will be the better looking one of the two, inside out. system and avionics, it's harder to say. Both can be really good.

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>I find this statement frankly astonishing. I submit that providing >proper support is fully HALF that which qualifies a 'good' >developer...Well I certainly disagree with that.A good developer produces a good 'product' first and foremost. Support is merely icing on the cake after the fact.An excellent product won't need a lot of support, A bad product will need a ton of support.Regards.Ernie.

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I have to agree: the model is not good. The nose-to-windscreen angle is too sharp, the body is too short, the blend from the wingbox to the fuselage is exaggerated and the leading edge of the engine nacelles is too large. (All of these criticisms based on the screenshots on their website).Couple the poor model with the fact that they've made Wilco the arbiter of feedback/complaints and I have to say they will not be getting my money this time. It's a shame, since I could be called a "loyal customer", having purchased a couple of their products and really loving their Legacy. As one who really likes the CX, I would have been first in line to buy a well done rendition from FeelThere.Too bad really....

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Our basic views are not dissimilar, but our paradigms seem to be. Clearly a basically sound product is the starting point, but in the exponentially expanding world of software/hardware, support makes or breaks customer loyalty. Even the essentially good products have had issues, generated queries etc. Surely you yourself can point to any number of highly respected names in FS that have had very active support forums, created SPs etc - or are they no good?Perhaps your product is an exception, but then it would be exactly that, an exception. regards,Markhttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/a320/custbanner2.jpgPC Power Silencer 470/3.2HT/2048mb/ATI X1950pro/SB Audigy

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I'll be interested in hearing thoughts and opinions from those that actually have the product. Any of us can draw conclusions from screenshots, but I think the original poster was hoping to hear from someone who's actually used it.

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>Our basic views are not dissimilar, but our paradigms seem to be. >Clearly a basically sound product is the starting point, but in the >exponentially expanding world of software/hardware, support makes >or breaks customer loyalty. I don't think so. If a product is not very good it doesn't matter how good the support is, you aren't going to have many loyal customers.Loyalty is built when the customers are very satisfied with the product(s). Then many will buy the next product practically sight unseen based on reputation built on from their previous products.An example is PMDG, when their 747 came out they had a flood of loyal customers buying it as soon as it came out. And they were buying that PMDG 747 not because PMDG's support is so great but because there were previously very satisfied with their 747NG product.Or perhaps your own apparent loyaly to airlinerXP is in part due to the quality of RealityXP's and Dreamfleets products.>Even the essentially good products have had issues, generated >queries etc. Surely you yourself can point to any number of highly >respected names in FS that have had very active support forums, >created SPs etc - or are they no good?I don't disagree Support is important, it is a very valuable plus if you do it well. But that's all it is a plus.The positives of the product can make up for lousy support. But positive support (no matter how great) can never make up for a lousy product.Lets take an example of a very successfull product that has almost no support from its developer/staff.FSNavigator:And its been that way for years, you'll be waiting a long long long time for a response from the FSNav team.But when this FSX version of FSNav eventually comes out, they'll be lining up to buy it.The utilitarianism and usefullness of FSNavigator totally trumps any support negatives.I think we'd be hard pressed to find an example of the opposite.Regards.Ernie.

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Well, I have their C-X now. The download went much better than the ugly mess that I and many others endured after buying the FeelThere/Wilco Scarebus. OTOH, not sure demand for this one is nearly as high...probably a combo of people still angry from the Wilco Airbus experience, people not as interested in a bizjet as with the more mainstream Scarebus airliner, and people waiting to see the Eaglesoft competition before making a decision.Download was slow (38 KBps) but completed in one pass without timing out using FreeDownloadManager running 4 data streams.I note, with chagrin, that FeelThere is directing customers with issues to the Wilco site to fill out a web-based support form, and has their Citation X forum locked to posts. And the Wilco support page says to visit the FeelThere forum for support. That, folks, is screwed up, and needs fixed straight away. I wouldn't recommend anyone touch this product while that sort of arrangement exists, especially with Wilco's well-established reputation as one of the most egregious slackers in the business when it comes to product support.I also have to note that the FeelThere site says they are taking vacation from 30 Apr to 16 May...they're shutting down for vacation less than a week into a major product release?? Another one of those things that makes a guy go "hmmmmm."More to follow as flight testing gets underway.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

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>>I think we'd be hard pressed to find an example of the>opposite.>>Regards.>Ernie.>opposite? lousy product? - you place me at your polar opposite so never mind. regards,Markhttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/a320/custbanner2.jpgPC Power Silencer 470/3.2HT/2048mb/ATI X1950pro/SB Audigyps - I'm a very pragmatic guy - don't read too much into the sig.

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Shutting down right after a major release? Really strange... I have a feeling that I'm going to sit this one out and wait for the Eaglesoft.

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>>>>I think we'd be hard pressed to find an example of the>>opposite.>>>>Regards.>>Ernie.>>>>opposite? lousy product? - you place me at your polar opposite>so never mind. The Opposite scenario would be excellent support, lousy product, but still product loyaltyRegards.Ernie.

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