I don't care who does it, I just want some bloody photoscenery for Canada for once! Mainly the Windsor - Toronto - Quebec City corridor. :(

Good call.I'd pay for that.

I also use FTX and love it. Since you use FTX and now this Megascenery, I'd appreciate your comments comparing both scenery addons.Thanks HowardI also use FTX and love it. Since you use FTX and now this Megascenery, I'd appreciate your comments comparing both scenery addons.Thanks Howard

Hi Paavo,

I imagine the free imagery is "dumbed" down so to speak, which makes sense because the stuff you buy is very expensive ( we looked into the price when we started out PNW photoscenery ). Dan and I have all of Western Washington as photoscenery on our hard drives, but the sharpness and color of Megascenery is good enough to buy it.

interesting comparison. When I was teaching airphoto and satellite image processing at SFU we'd run contests among the students who would do the best job transforming a "washed out" source image into the most realistic final product. It's quite amazing what the right combination of filters and other processing steps can do. Looks like the MegaScenery guys beat you on this one :( When you compare the compiled bgl files in TMFViewer you'll notice that the MSE files don't show any more detail. Instead you'll see the typical blocking "artefacts" of a sharpening filter. Add to that a decent haze removal algorithm and you can fully explain the difference. In short, my money is still on them using the same NAIP source data as you and I are -- and Dean apparently is too; I'm glad I'm not in the photoreal product business :( DigitalGlobe doesn't offer full coverage of states in high-res airphoto mosaics, mostly just metropolitan areas: http://www.digitalglobe.com/index.php/106/Aerial+Coverage#WA . It's perfectly possible though that MSE uses DigitalGlobe as their data provider for other areas. Perhaps MSE uses the DG metro mosaics to supplement the NAIP areas where available though I don't think they did that for Seattle. Moreover, my guess would be that they will try to use Quickbird or IKONOS 1-m satellite imagery to produce the areas outside the US if they can afford it. In my mind, US coverage based on QB or IKONOS would be have been better than the NAIP mosaics because satellite imagery tends to have much less internal distortions and visible tiling. However, even with a subscription contract it would cost them several Dollars per sq km, which may not be financially viable in the limited flightsim market.Anyway, the original question was whether one can predict the quality of a specific MSE tile and it seems to me that looking at the local NAIP coverage would be a good indicator.Cheers, Holger

There is nothing new or revolutionary about what PC Aviator is doing. We've been publicly developing the 1m USA wide photoscenery at FS Dreamscapes for the USA for over 1 year, having done 6 years of research work and 2 years of developing technology behind the scenes... We have done this from scratch and have been leading the way in USA and Worldwide photoscenery coverage...The cost of MegasceneryEarth's Utah is going to cost you $180 for current coverage even at the lowest price and I'd estimate anywhere between $220-260 when it's done...PCA is just copying the exact model we've been working on at FS Dreamscapes for the past two years... They've made some pretty outrageous claims the last week about revolutionary, lowest price per square mile, and a few other dubious claims. All they've been doing is copying what we've been doing at FS Dreamscapes, right down to our planned FS Genesis style pricing model, we just hadn't made any public FS community announcements about what we've been developing because we wanted to wait till the time was right for a public announcement...Just because Megascenery/PCA have made the first public announcement, doesn't mean that they were first to do this, nor does it mean that they thought up the concept... They have copied every single aspect of our business model (current and also publicly proposed on our blog, forums and website) so don't be fooled into believing their claims...All I can say is be sure you're not wasting your money on an overpriced product that is simply a reaction to a visionary company who dared to dream to cover the USA in 1m photoscenery and who will continue to lead in the area of USA wide photoscenery coverage...

FS Dreamscapes doesn't have a monoply on ideas. Can anyone else taste sour grapes?

I have no plans on buying full states, only cities that I fly into, out of, or around frequently,

A lot of people are probably going to do that...and it leads to a complaint I have about the product as of right now.What "wizard" at PCA came up with their outrageous pricing plan for this stuff?They have started selling some of the tiles as "city packs". Anybody who buys them that way needs to look really hard at the price of these packs. And complain like all get out to PCA. Until they change their pricing policy, I'm not purchasing ANY more of the tiles for ANYWHERE.Do the math. Their current Colorado scenery tiles cover 15 tile areas. If you downloaded all 15 of them in one purchase (like I did originally), the total cost for the 15 tiles was about $70...each tile cost $4.99. If you just purchase the Denver City Pack, you get a whopping FOUR tiles for $24.95. That's $6.25 per tile. All 15 Colorado tiles at that rate would cost almost $100.Why the big cost difference per tile? What are the "added expenses" PCA is incurring that makes it necessary to charge $7.49 for ONE tile, $6.25 for FOUR tiles, and only $4.99 for FIFTEEN tiles? Bandwidth is bandwidth...downloading costs can't be the answer. Bulk purchasing discount? That's cool...but at those price differences, NOBODY should be purchasing ANY of the tiles right now. It would be better to wait until ALL tiles were available, then make one mass purchase of the areas you wanted all at once. I could get the 4 "Colorado City Pack" tiles for only $4.99 each (total $19.96) if I combined them with a total of 15 other tile purchases at the same time.With their current pricing structure, we are all going to be paying much more than necessary in the long run. What if they come out with "Entire State Coverage" pricing at reduced rates once entire states get completed? How many people are gonna be PO'd when that happens, and they got nit-picked to death by purchaing higher-priced individual state tiles in the meantime?I'm done buying any of it for now until PCA starts using a more "customer friendly" pricing plan. The current one is rediculous, in my opinion.FalconAF

FS Dreamscapes doesn't have a monoply on ideas.

PCA is just copying the exact model we've been working on...outrageous claims...dubious claims...copying what we've been doing...copied every single aspect of our business model...don't be fooled into believing their claims...be sure you're not wasting your money...overpriced product..reaction to a visionary company who dared to dream...

Maybe you should have done more than dream?Can anyone else taste sour grapes?

A lot of people are probably going to do that...and it leads to a complaint I have about the product as of right now.What "wizard" at PCA came up with their outrageous pricing plan for this stuff?They have started selling some of the tiles as "city packs". Anybody who buys them that way needs to look really hard at the price of these packs. And complain like all get out to PCA. Until they change their pricing policy, I'm not purchasing ANY more of the tiles for ANYWHERE.Do the math. Their current Colorado scenery tiles cover 15 tile areas. If you downloaded all 15 of them in one purchase (like I did originally), the total cost for the 15 tiles was about $70...each tile cost $4.99. If you just purchase the Denver City Pack, you get a whopping FOUR tiles for $24.95. That's $6.25 per tile. All 15 Colorado tiles at that rate would cost almost $100.Why the big cost difference per tile? What are the "added expenses" PCA is incurring that makes it necessary to charge $7.49 for ONE tile, $6.25 for FOUR tiles, and only $4.99 for FIFTEEN tiles? Bandwidth is bandwidth...downloading costs can't be the answer. Bulk purchasing discount? That's cool...but at those price differences, NOBODY should be purchasing ANY of the tiles right now. It would be better to wait until ALL tiles were available, then make one mass purchase of the areas you wanted all at once. I could get the 4 "Colorado City Pack" tiles for only $4.99 each (total $19.96) if I combined them with a total of 15 other tile purchases at the same time.With their current pricing structure, we are all going to be paying much more than necessary in the long run. What if they come out with "Entire State Coverage" pricing at reduced rates once entire states get completed? How many people are gonna be PO'd when that happens, and they got nit-picked to death by purchaing higher-priced individual state tiles in the meantime?I'm done buying any of it for now until PCA starts using a more "customer friendly" pricing plan. The current one is rediculous, in my opinion.FalconAF

I agree with all that you said.Also notice on today's AVSIM frontpage it say's this:

The pricing for the scenery tiles is as little as $3.00 per area when consumers take up maximum volume discounts. This is the lowest price per square mile ever offered for Flight Simulator photoscenery.

I don't think so!Todd

Hi Paavo,interesting comparison. When I was teaching airphoto and satellite image processing at SFU we'd run contests among the students who would do the best job transforming a "washed out" source image into the most realistic final product. It's quite amazing what the right combination of filters and other processing steps can do. Looks like the MegaScenery guys beat you on this one :( When you compare the compiled bgl files in TMFViewer you'll notice that the MSE files don't show any more detail. Instead you'll see the typical blocking "artefacts" of a sharpening filter. Add to that a decent haze removal algorithm and you can fully explain the difference. In short, my money is still on them using the same NAIP source data as you and I are -- and Dean apparently is too; I'm glad I'm not in the photoreal product business :( DigitalGlobe doesn't offer full coverage of states in high-res airphoto mosaics, mostly just metropolitan areas: http://www.digitalglobe.com/index.php/106/Aerial+Coverage#WA . It's perfectly possible though that MSE uses DigitalGlobe as their data provider for other areas. Perhaps MSE uses the DG metro mosaics to supplement the NAIP areas where available though I don't think they did that for Seattle. Moreover, my guess would be that they will try to use Quickbird or IKONOS 1-m satellite imagery to produce the areas outside the US if they can afford it. In my mind, US coverage based on QB or IKONOS would be have been better than the NAIP mosaics because satellite imagery tends to have much less internal distortions and visible tiling. However, even with a subscription contract it would cost them several Dollars per sq km, which may not be financially viable in the limited flightsim market.Anyway, the original question was whether one can predict the quality of a specific MSE tile and it seems to me that looking at the local NAIP coverage would be a good indicator.Cheers, Holger

The real problem was editiing such huge images in Photoshop. Images that are 29,000 X 29,000 pixels and well over 1 gig in size bring PS to it's knees even on a good system with 4 gig's of ram. I had to adopt a system that would do the entire image, that way I could make a PS action, start that action and walk away. I'm sure I could have done better by tweaking each tile by hand, changing the color balance, levels, etc on just parts of the image I had open in PS, but like I said PS runs so slow it just wasn't worth it. I'm sure for the areas I compared megascenery was using 1 foot imagery, vs the 1 meter I had, hence the sharper apperance in flight sim.

FS Dreamscapes doesn't have a monoply on ideas. Can anyone else taste sour grapes?

I have to agree with you a little on that, look at Dan and I, we didn't even get our PNW photoscenery realesed and I'm hear saying how good it is and I even bought some of it despite already having all of Western Washington. We spent hundreds and hundreds of hours on our photoscenery, we even were going to sell it in a similar fashion, by county ( no, we didn't "steal" this idea from you ).No offence, I know how much work this stuff is, but there is nothing revolutionary about selling it piecemeal.Instead of coming here and crying about it, why not tell us what's better about your scenery and why we should buy it instead of megascenery ?Do you offer night lighting ?What about autogen ? How much water masking does your Utah have ?Look at the bright side, at least you got yours realesed, unlike our PNW photoscenery.As far as pricing, look at what you are charging for mesh, $35 for Florida ? That's a super flat state with the highest point being 345", why do I even need mesh for a place that flat, and why would I spend $35 on it ?I notice the "investmest" part of your website is gone, I guess nobody wanted to give you $500 so you could buy a Seagate hard drive that in reality costs less than half that.

We've been publicly developing the 1m USA wide photoscenery at FS Dreamscapes for the USA for over 1 year, having done 6 years of research work and 2 years of developing technology behind the scenes... We have done this from scratch and have been leading the way in USA and Worldwide photoscenery coverage......

Worldwide scenery coverage ????You only have part of Utah done, how is that Worldwide ? 6 years of reasarch and 2 years of dev time to do part of Utah, and you are plan to do the whole world ? So by the year 2137 you should have the whole world done I guess.Sounds to me like some of your claims are as outlandish as Megascenery.

Hey Paavo, I am assuming that you are part of the developement team on this so let me ask you a question, forgive if your not. I attached three screens below. They are from the FLORIDA-018 tile. There are a lot of clouds on the ground in this particular tile. I haven't seen this in any of the other tiles I have downloaded so far, but it really looks bad. Especially when car traffic is driving thru the clouds on the ground. These clouds are not visible at night however. Any chance that there will be a fix to this particular tile? Also, as the end user, how can we open the .agn files to manually photoshop edit these our selves? Thanks,Sean

Hey Paavo, I am assuming that you are part of the developement team on this so let me ask you a question, forgive if your not. I attached three screens below. They are from the FLORIDA-018 tile. There are a lot of clouds on the ground in this particular tile. I haven't seen this in any of the other tiles I have downloaded so far, but it really looks bad. Especially when car traffic is driving thru the clouds on the ground. These clouds are not visible at night however. Any chance that there will be a fix to this particular tile? Also, as the end user, how can we open the .agn files to manually photoshop edit these our selves? Thanks,Sean

I'm not part of megascenery, I was doing a photoscenery PNW with Skydvdan ( we did Tucson photoreal for FS9 ). I'm just a fan of photoscenery, I have no connection with megascenery, PCA, or Aersoft Australia.Looks like the Florida imagery is pretty bad based on yours and other shots/comments.To answer your other question, you can edit the agn files yourself, you need to install the annotator. Then figure out which bgl has the autogen you want to edit, open with annotator and edit away. I notice they used the wrong type of vegetation for Washington state, it's a lot of work but stuff like that could be fixed.You can realign airports with any afcad program like afx, and something like instant scenery can be used to realign/scale the default 3D objects.I've only got Washington 3 and 4 so far, and the imagery is pretty good, much better than the Florida stuff you posted.

I'm not part of megascenery, I was doing a photoscenery PNW with Skydvdan ( we did Tucson photoreal for FS9 ). I'm just a fan of photoscenery, I have no connection with megascenery, PCA, or Aersoft Australia.Looks like the Florida imagery is pretty bad based on yours and other shots/comments.To answer your other question, you can edit the agn files yourself, you need to install the annotator. Then figure out which bgl has the autogen you want to edit, open with annotator and edit away. I notice they used the wrong type of vegetation for Washington state, it's a lot of work but stuff like that could be fixed.You can realign airports with any afcad program like afx, and something like instant scenery can be used to realign/scale the default 3D objects.I've only got Washington 3 and 4 so far, and the imagery is pretty good, much better than the Florida stuff you posted.

Thanks Paavo for clearing that up, as far as your not part of the developement team. For a wile I thought you were either part of Aerosoft's or FlyTampa's dev team since I see posts by you in both places often. Now you just need your Kramer avatar here :( Actually, I didn't realize until I after I posted that the .agn files aren't the scenery tiles. I guess that would be the .bgl's. I thought at a glance they were the .agn file since they were in the texture file. I guess what I need is a utility to open the .bgl, fix the coloring at least in photoshop, then recompile the .bgl. Does this sound right? I don't want to mess with the autogen.BTW, I enjoyed the Tucson area you guys did for FS9. Being from Tucson and having spent much of my life there, as well as starting my flight training there, it was really cool finally having photo scenery.

FS Dreamscapes doesn't have a monoply on ideas. Maybe you should have done more than dream?Can anyone else taste sour grapes?

Firstly they have copied exactly the business model we designed, we spoke of an FS Genesis style model many times over in the past, and they copied our exact business model to a "T" based on that, but that's fine we don't care, we have different plans so we're already ahead of them in that area...We have definitely done more than dream, we actually started doing 1m wide photoscenery coverage of the USA in earnest over 1 year ago. Our production times have increased exponetially in that time and will continue to increase even further within the next few weeks.Yes we have not released as much as Megascenery has done initially because we have been setting up our tools to build a a superior product while Megascenery is stuck using the same old tools and routines they have always used... We will be outproducing them very soon with better quality data...Sour grapes make good wine don't they? Anyway I don't drink and prefer my grapes to be fresh... Seriously there's no sour grapes just wanting the FS community to know that they're being scammed out of their money with MegasceneryEarth.

I have to agree with you a little on that, look at Dan and I, we didn't even get our PNW photoscenery realesed and I'm hear saying how good it is and I even bought some of it despite already having all of Western Washington. We spent hundreds and hundreds of hours on our photoscenery, we even were going to sell it in a similar fashion, by county ( no, we didn't "steal" this idea from you ).No offence, I know how much work this stuff is, but there is nothing revolutionary about selling it piecemeal.

I saw what you guys were doing with PNW, and was glad to see what you were doing. Like you I've been a Megascenery fan since FS98. I had the original Megascenery Melbourne, almost every FS2004 Megascenery addon there was... The bottom line was they were only focused on small cities and basing their imagery on 1-2 foot per pixel AirphotoUSA imagery and have publicly stated before they would not even touch any other source... I guess they lied huh?In so far as the county by county model, they have copied the FS Genesis style approach which we have stated repeatedly is the model we were looking at implementing... They've copied Justin's pricing structure in the exact same way as we had stated we were considering... Funny that they have only suddenly started doing USA wide 1m per pixel photoscenery based on NAIP data and using the FSG pricing model after we came out with our VFR+ plans... You can bet your bottom dollar that they would not be doing this had we not first started covering the USA in 1m data... We even threw down the gauntlet to other developers by publicly listing where others could get the NAIP data for free... We had no worries about competition because we know where we're headed and the stuff going on behind the scenes here, we did that to spark competition because without competition there is less room for innovation...

Instead of coming here and crying about it, why not tell us what's better about your scenery and why we should buy it instead of megascenery ?

The only people who will be crying will be those who shell out $250 for Utah when they can get it for $35 with much better data than Megasceney when it's complete. Not only that they'll be crying for having forked out hard earned cash for the rest of the USA too... Our stuff is 1/5 to 1/7 of the price maybe even lower, our price for Utah is 0.0004 cents per square mile, their's is 0.0025 to 0.0050 cents per square mile...You want to get ripped off with 5 times the price and terrible water mapping data from the USGS go right ahead, that's the beauty of a free market society...In terms of what's better than Megascenery what I can publicly disclose right now is:MegasceneryEarth Utah = $180-260+ for current state coverage, even more when completeDreamscapes VFR+ Utah = $34.99 for entire state when completeMegasceneryEarth Utah = 7 day download link activation with $5 per incident reactivation of a download linkDreamscapes VFR+ Utah = 10 year download link activation with 5-10 download cycles that get reactivated for free when neededMegasceneryEarth Utah = Terribly inaccurate water mapping data based on USGS NHD or NHDHD water data with many holes and voids and most rivers and streams not coveredDreamscapes VFR+ Utah = Top secret highly accurate water mapping data in development and will be provided as a free update when availableWe have many more comparison's we'll be able to make in the near future but we have to be wise is sharing what else we have planned, but in time those details will come to light :-)

Do you offer night lighting ?What about autogen ? How much water masking does your Utah have ?

Our proprietary Night lighting and Autogen will be a free update once they are available. They will be a lot better than what is included with MegasceneryEarth, but you'll have to wait and see ;-) We have decided purposefully not to use the approach Megascenery has with autogen and night lighting because their autogen system is highly inaccurate and their night lighting system is a fake artistic rendering. To us accuracy matters. Why spend our time and waste your time developing something inferior?Watermapping of Utah will have 100% highly accurate water mapping data when it is finalized in late 2009. We decided not to use the USGS data because it is so terrible, and we've not had one complaint about that fact. If I were to divulge more information right now I'd be giving away trade secrets but we have the benefit of knowing what we're doing and working on and that will be revealed to the public very soon...Every other state after Utah will have watermapping from the start and we've been chomping at the bit to get moving on those states but are committed to completing our promise to our Utah customers first before we release the new data... It's all about delivering on promises...

Look at the bright side, at least you got yours realesed, unlike our PNW photoscenery.

I'm sure you're working full time which would make your development work difficult. We did start to eat an elephant one bite at a time so to speak and while publicly it may look like a small amount of data we've released so far we have consistently communicated that we're working on the tools to get more done faster and that there will be a huge paradigm when the time is right... We're now at a very exciting stage...

As far as pricing, look at what you are charging for mesh, $35 for Florida ? That's a super flat state with the highest point being 345", why do I even need mesh for a place that flat, and why would I spend $35 on it ?I notice the "investmest" part of your website is gone, I guess nobody wanted to give you $500 so you could buy a Seagate hard drive that in reality costs less than half that.

As far as pricing for photoscenery ours is 1/5 to 1/7 the cost of Megascenery per square mile...You may not understand the pricing structure for the ProMesh but that's okay, you will understand it in time. One dataset is public and free the other comes from literally tens of millions of dollars worth of source data... But you see, you don't know what we have planned for our photoscenery and mesh so until we make our plans public you're free to not understand it... It's okay but you'll learn about it when the time comes...The investment part of our website is no longer active because we raised all the investment funds we needed at that point in time. The hard drive investment level was $150 so before you start making false accusations please get your facts straight. The other investment levels we pulled because of some other things going on behind the scenes that we no longer needed to raise further capital in that manner. Bottom line is that was a business decision that we don't have to explain but because you brought it up, the bottom line is that all investment slots were filled....

Worldwide scenery coverage ????You only have part of Utah done, how is that Worldwide ? 6 years of reasarch and 2 years of dev time to do part of Utah, and you are plan to do the whole world ? So by the year 2137 you should have the whole world done I guess.Sounds to me like some of your claims are as outlandish as Megascenery.

Well that's the beauty of a free society PaavoNurmi, you can speculate all you want but the simple fact is you don't have all the information available to you to make a correct assessment and if you want to believe that, that's your perogative, but it doesn't make it the truth, it's simply your opinion and not fact... If I were free to live in a world where we could publicly disclose every business plan without worrying about others stealing IP and claiming it was their idea we would, but the game has now changed and we're now implementing our contingency plans as per our outline in our business plan for when competition were to arise...Finally it's good to have competition, do you know how unmotivating it is not to have a competitor in the marketplace? No yardstick to compare with, now we have that we're stoked!!! I thrive on competition and you are free to speculate all you want, but the fact is in the not too distant future your speculation will be proved wrong...In the meantime we have to finalize our code and make magic happen... I'm just giving you guys a heads up, you could be well wasting your money on an inferior product but if you want to be impatient and want to throw away lots of hard earned income the choice is yours... :-)Anyway in response to one more thing...

To answer your other question, you can edit the agn files yourself, you need to install the annotator. Then figure out which bgl has the autogen you want to edit, open with annotator and edit away. I notice they used the wrong type of vegetation for Washington state, it's a lot of work but stuff like that could be fixed.You can realign airports with any afcad program like afx, and something like instant scenery can be used to realign/scale the default 3D objects.

On autogen, that's why we haven't yet implemented autogen, we're planning on getting it right the first time... ;-)On airport alignments, our airports are already aligned and fixed for compatibility with 5m mesh... :-)BTW PaavoNurmi, our next state already has our high res water mapping data ready and we've been sitting on it for the last 6 months while we finalize our code and complete the initial pass of Utah... All of our customers who have invested in VFR+ Utah before Dec 31, 2008 will be getting the next state totally for free as a gift to say thank you for their support while we've pioneered 1m USA wide photoscenery...$35 for 248,585 square miles of photosenery coverage.And like Apple, we will always have "one more thing" but you'll have to wait and see what it is :-)Cheers,Dean.(edit) Post Script - You know guys I'm laughing here because I'm seeing ya'll point out all the flaws in Megascenery, like with autogen, coloring, watermapping etc and then you're trying to comment on FS Dreamscapes not having autogen, nightlighting or watermapping for Utah yet even though the whole reason we don't have those things immediately available is because we're making sure we don't do what Megascenery has done... I'm like "Duh! Don't you guys see the flaws in trying to flame VFR+?????" The arguments are circular... It's like the FS complaints, FS doesn't have feature x,y,z and oh yeah frame rates are terrible, but we want x,y,z and high frame rates...I'd encourage you to ask yourselves, what do you want?A) Autogen, Nightlighting and Watermapping now even though all of those 3 are seriously flawed for $0.0025 per square mile (at cheapest)or:( A completely integrated fully developed high resolution solution that provides accurate autogen, accurate nightlighting and accurate watermapping for $0.0004 per square mile (and that's only to start with) even though you might have to wait a little while longer...Anyway, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all...

You can bet your bottom dollar that they would not be doing this had we not first started covering the USA in 1m data...

Give me a friggin break dude, you're so full or yourself you must be under the age of 25. They had plenty of photoscenery for FS9, and the reason they are selling it as download is cost, plain and simple. Dan and I had the same idea, since boxed products you give up a 75% commison to the distributer, vs 20 to 30% for download products. Megascenery can now avoid the huge cost a dvd duplication, lables, boxes, printed manuals etc.There is nothing unique about your idea or the way you sell stuff.

Firstly they have copied exactly the business model we designed, we spoke of an FS Genesis style model many times over in the past, and they copied our exact business model to a "T"

So I guess you stole your model from FSG based on your own logic.

The bottom line was they were only focused on small cities and basing their imagery on 1-2 foot per pixel AirphotoUSA imagery and have publicly stated before they would not even touch any other source... I guess they lied huh?

I gather you don't own FS9 PNW, it covered all of Western Washington, hardly a city.

We even threw down the gauntlet to other developers by publicly listing where others could get the NAIP data for free

That stuff is no big secret to any dev in the flight sim world, we can all find it without your help. Where do you think all the airport devs and Flightscenery get the base image for the airport ?Do you own any georender stuff ? Same thing, with a bigger base image than just the airport property

he only people who will be crying will be those who shell out $250 for Utah when they can get it for $35 with much better data than Megasceney when it's complete

I noticed you changed the pricing on the fsdreamscapes website. At first it was pre order the whole thing for cheap, or wait until it's done and pay a much higher price, what was that price ? I can't remember but it was close to or over $100. The bad thing about that is buying a product with no gurantees it will be finished.

Dreamscapes VFR+ Utah = Top secret highly accurate water mapping data in development and will be provided as a free update when available. Our proprietary Night lighting and Autogen will be a free update once they are available

I hope this is true and comes to fruition, but I don't like buying an unfinished product with no gurantees of completion, things come up which is why our PNW was never finished.

I'm sure you're working full time which would make your development work difficult

I have a full time day job and Dan is currently deployed in Iraq, add in a divorce for one of us and you can see why our project never got finished.Dean, if I've been to hard on you I'm sorry. I don't want this to spiral down into a flame war.If and when your Utah is finished with all the great things you promise and it's better than megascenery I will buy it. I just think you need to stop with the conspiracy of megascenery stealing your ideas, there is nothing unique about your product or way of selling it. If I use your logic then anybody who does photoscenery is stealing ideas from Megascenery, hell even selling stuff as a donwload is stealing from you based on that logic. Now, you may offer a better version of the same product that megascenery offers, we all know the support is not there from them and the product is far from perfect. The competion is good, I hope it drives you to make a better product, but get real on the " they stole from me" BS.You honestly think selling stuff they way you do is some unique idea that nobody on the planet but you could come up with ?We were going to sell ours by county, and this was before we knew about you or your product, it's kinda of a common sense thing, and common sense in not a unique IP.