Let me get this straight... the 430 and 530 are both almost fifty bucks. I can definitely live with that, but would rather see a discount for purchasing both... there had to be at least some duplication of code going on there. But now they want 100 bucks for the 3.5 meg "Ultimate" Expansion pack that simply lets you use two of their units on the same panel???There has either got to be a pricing error or some *serious* gouging going on...Robert

I posted this in the RXP forum, but I will do the same here:I guess I look at this a bit differently.I will purchase this product, but right now (being self-employed) need to wait for some checks to come in. But here is what many may want to look at:I have many third party aircraft, and I log all my aircraft broken down into hours flown. I do this for a variety of reasons, but mostly to 'force' myself into flying third party products which I've paid for, thus try to spread my time around in each.the group of aircraft I have the most time in (in FSX) are my three ES Cirrus aircraft, with a total of 91 hours. The three cost me roughly $90. So, I have essentially paid $1 per hour for the pleasure.I have the Carenado Mooney with 65 hours, it cost me $27. So, I have essentially paid $.42 per hour for the pleasure.I also have aircraft I have paid $30+/- for that I have only flown 10-20 hours. So, I have essentially paid $2+ per hour for the pleasure.I have some that I have paid $20-30 on and have under 10 hours in them. Some are costing me thus far in excess of $4 per hour for my pleasure.Now, I have RXP units in most all these aircraft. I purchased both the 430/530 last year about this time. I would imagine I have flown 500 hours+/- with the new WAAS units in FSX. So, roughly, I have essentially paid $0.16 per hour for my pleasure. If I purchase this package, undoubtedly, I will put in excess of 500 hours of use 'into' them. Again, that will cost me about $0.18 per hour for the pleasure.Thus, the RXP products have actually provided my with more hours of pleasure per hourly cost than any of my individual aircraft. In addition, I guess I could say some aircraft that cost me in excess of $40, and have only flown for 10-20 hours have been a bad deal? No, I cannot say that, that was my choice. It is my fault if I have not used them, so they are neither poor products, or too expensive. It is simply I may not getting the value out of them as I do with other products. I know I will get value out of this package when I purchase it, as I use my RXP stuff almost constantly.I encourage you to identify how much value you are getting out of the aircraft you have paid a nice sum of money on, and scenery packages, and ask yourself, is that $40 aircraft I have flown very little a better deal than this package that may provide me literally hundreds of hours of pleasure? What is the better value?

I have both the 430RXP and the 530RXP and am intrigued by the new add-on. I'm not sure I'll buy the add-on (I agree $100 is not a slam dunk decision these days) but....My reaction to reading about the latest release from RealityXP was, first and foremost ....THANK GOODNESS THAT JEAN-LUC IS STILL DEVELOPING FOR FSX!These are uncertain times for our hobby. As others have mentioned, the lack of a new version of Microsoft Flight Sim will likely result in the number of new users dwindling. I for one was introduced to simming with FSX and likely would not have found this wonderful hobby if Microsoft had ceased with FS9. Lets all hope Microsoft sees the light and announces a new version sometime soon (but I'm not holding my breath).I'm glad to have a choice to purchase an add-on for my existing RXP430 and RXP530. I'm glad Jean-Luc has continued to develop products for my hobby. His products are truly first class. For me, having the gauge react EXACTLY as its real world counterpart is very important and I understand I have to pay a premium for this. Yes they could be improved. As someone pointed out, it would be nice if the Configurator helped place the gauge in 3D view but that is not a deal breaker for me. Will I spend $100 for TCAS, ability to put two 430s or two 530s in the same panel, and crossfill. Not sure I will. But I am glad to know a first class developer like Jean-Luc is still working to make my hobby better and introducing innovative and new products (or features..). I'd much rather struggle with whether I wanted to spend the money for an add-on/feature than struggle with my hobby becoming stale due to fewer new releases.I've learned a great deal from all of you on Avsim and I appreciate everyone's willingness to share their viewpoints. We don't always agree but it is wonderful to have this community back and to hear from someone from the group.Best

Define "unfair"... and "ridiculous".My wished for vacation house on the ocean is also ridiculously priced for my frame of reference-but it must not be for others.. :( In my opinion the price for most quality add ins for fs has been ridiculously low for the value/time to produce, and possibly unfair to the developers.

Unfair, unreasonable. It is all the same. The house reference is somewhat irrelevant since house prices on the beach can vary by location, economy, size, builder, etc.. whereas the Reality XP product is pretty much the only option.On a side note, I would like a beach house as well if you are buying. :(

GNS WAAS Unlimited is a pro-summer product for personal training needs. Alternatives on the market exist:* Elite Simulation + Hardware (mandatory for the GNS) retailing for $199+$549=$748 (although you only get 1 GNS in this configuration)* GNS Courses like this one: http://www.gleim.com/aviation/products.php?cat=G530#Online for $99* Sporty's GNS Training pack: http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&a...roduct_ID=11303 retailing for $395.* Jeppesen Advanced Garmin GNS 430/530 Software http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&a...9743&DID=19 retailing for $125.95

None of those products mentioned can be used in Flight Simulator. So, what relevance do they have to what you are selling to the FS community....that I can use the RXP for training, just like these other more expensive add-ons?If so, are you essentially saying RXP is now catering almost specifically to people who want to use FS as a training tool? Haven't RXP products always been somewhat toted as "so close to the real thing, you could use them as a training tool" (or is that just what users have said? Honest question.)? If so, what makes these so different than the other RXP products from a while back? It would seem to me, and if I am wrong please correct me, Jean Luc, that the older RXP products had more functionality "out of the box". Is this just a sign of the times?Thanks for your contributions to the FS community. While I do not agree with the pricing scheme, I most certainly appreciate your work.

I have both the 430RXP and the 530RXP and am intrigued by the new add-on. I'm not sure I'll buy the add-on (I agree $100 is not a slam dunk decision these days) but....My reaction to reading about the latest release from RealityXP was, first and foremost ....THANK GOODNESS THAT JEAN-LUC IS STILL DEVELOPING FOR FSX!These are uncertain times for our hobby. As others have mentioned, the lack of a new version of Microsoft Flight Sim will likely result in the number of new users dwindling. I for one was introduced to simming with FSX and likely would not have found this wonderful hobby if Microsoft had ceased with FS9. Lets all hope Microsoft sees the light and announces a new version sometime soon (but I'm not holding my breath).I'm glad to have a choice to purchase an add-on for my existing RXP430 and RXP530. I'm glad Jean-Luc has continued to develop products for my hobby. His products are truly first class. For me, having the gauge react EXACTLY as its real world counterpart is very important and I understand I have to pay a premium for this. Yes they could be improved. As someone pointed out, it would be nice if the Configurator helped place the gauge in 3D view but that is not a deal breaker for me. Will I spend $100 for TCAS, ability to put two 430s or two 530s in the same panel, and crossfill. Not sure I will. But I am glad to know a first class developer like Jean-Luc is still working to make my hobby better and introducing innovative and new products (or features..). I'd much rather struggle with whether I wanted to spend the money for an add-on/feature than struggle with my hobby becoming stale due to fewer new releases.I've learned a great deal from all of you on Avsim and I appreciate everyone's willingness to share their viewpoints. We don't always agree but it is wonderful to have this community back and to hear from someone from the group.Best

Great post Doug. I think you said better what I was trying to say above. Of course this new product may not meet everyone's price comfort-but thank god it is available. And Todd to respond to your post-while I mentioned the cost of the real avionics I also mentioned the cost of the present training software available to pilots for these units-and that was the compare-not the real units to the rxp software. All cost much more than a single rxp unit -get the cheapest Jepp software and it is the cost of a rxp unit plus the new $100 addition...Main difference-the Jepp is a multi media limited presentation-the rxp a real working unit you can use under a realistic load of real flying in a simulator. Of course the Jepp doesn't have two units running-only a semi one. Jean Luc provided a list of other software available that has even a higher price point. His product is extremely competitive here.Seems to me that simmers should not expect a better deal just because they are simmers. The g1000 and g530 included with fsx are plenty good for casual simming. If reality is what they want-then it is their choice to pay for it or not, but don't blame the manufacturer for making it and putting a price on his work.

Great post Doug. I think you said better what I was trying to say above. Of course this new product may not meet everyone's price comfort-but thank god it is available. And Todd to respond to your post-while I mentioned the cost of the real avionics I also mentioned the cost of the present training software available to pilots for these units-and that was the compare-not the real units to the rxp software. All cost much more than a single rxp unit -get the cheapest Jepp software and it is the cost of a rxp unit plus the new $100 addition...Main difference-the Jepp is a multi media limited presentation-the rxp a real working unit you can use under a realistic load of real flying in a simulator. Of course the Jepp doesn't have two units running-only a semi one. Jean Luc provided a list of other software available that has even a higher price point. His product is extremely competitive here.Seems to me that simmers should not expect a better deal just because they are simmers. The g1000 and g530 included with fsx are plenty good for casual simming. If reality is what they want-then it is their choice to pay for it or not, but don't blame the manufacturer for making it and putting a price on his work.

Alright Geof fair enough.But I do not expect a better deal just because I am a simmer. I'm trying to understand the reasoning behind the large increase in pricing. This isn't an issue you can address Geof since you don't work for Reality XP so I'm just throwing this stuff out there. So lets take a look at my past Reality XP purchases.I purchased the Reality XP 530 WAAS on 6/4/2008 for $39.95.I purchased the Reality XP 430 WAAS on 6/4/2008 for $29.95.Both of these were introductory previous user prices if I remember correctly. The same units today are $49.95 each. That's a increase of $10 and $20 in one year but again my price was probably a special. I think I can deal with that sort of increase. But take a look at the following: I purchased the Reality XP 530 on 2/6/2003 for a special price of $14.95I purchased the Reality XP 430 on 6/22/2005 for $29.95I purchased the Reality XP GNS Pro on 6/22/2005 for $24.95The Garmin 430 did not go up in price in 3 years and has gone up $20 in 4 years. I'm still more or less OK with that BUT the GNS Pro (now called GNS Unlimited) went up a whopping $75 in 4 years!Something somewhere just doesn't seem right with that price.Jean Luc you can charge whatever you want but from a long time consumer stand point I just can't understand that kind of increase as being justifiable but again this is just my opinion. More power to all of you that think it is fair.OK enough of my whining. I've said enough. :(Todd

There are many interesting comments in this thread, and this perfectly reflects how expectations differ.

Expectations? I own every product you offer for FS with the exception of FSX Wxradar. Going back to the beginning of Rxp, all of them. My expectations were to eventually have back the cross-fill and dual GNS function via the professional package I enjoyed 3 years ago. Now, that capability has been elevated to 'serious training' with an unprecedented price tag. Business must be good. I hope this new direction doesn't mean you have 'kissed off' the general simulation community for all future products. Bob..

What you are paying for is the work that went into programming so that you could have these features available in the sim. If that is something important enough for a user to justify the price then buy it, if you can't justify the price then don't buy it. Pummeling the developer for charging money for his time or expecting him to work for free so you can sit at home simming on an entertainment sim that you can't log time on doesn't really sound like a reasonable or realistic expectation to me.

I'm trying to understand the reasoning behind the large increase in pricing. So lets take a look at my past Reality XP purchases.I purchased the Reality XP 530 WAAS on 6/4/2008 for $39.95.I purchased the Reality XP 430 WAAS on 6/4/2008 for $29.95.Both of these were introductory previous user prices if I remember correctly. The same units today are $49.95 each. That's a increase of $10 and $20 in one year but again my price was probably a special. I think I can deal with that sort of increase. But take a look at the following: I purchased the Reality XP 530 on 2/6/2003 for a special price of $14.95I purchased the Reality XP 430 on 6/22/2005 for $29.95I purchased the Reality XP GNS Pro on 6/22/2005 for $24.95The Garmin 430 did not go up in price in 3 years and has gone up $20 in 4 years. I'm still more or less OK with that BUT the GNS Pro (now called GNS Unlimited) went up a whopping $75 in 4 years!Something somewhere just doesn't seem right with that price.Jean Luc you can charge whatever you want but from a long time consumer stand point I just can't understand that kind of increase as being justifiable but again this is just my opinion. More power to all of you that think it is fair.OK enough of my whining. I've said enough. :(Todd

Hi Todd, and thank you for bringing these valid points. Long time customers like you certainly have a different vision/experience with Reality XP than newer ones, so let me refresh some history facts that can help:- indeed, the GNS simulation was our second product after the Apollo. Customers of the Apollo have had the privilege at the time to purchase the GNS at an incredibly low and introductory price of $15. This was back nearly 6 years ago, with FS2002. We have release something around 5 updates from v1.0 to v1.5 with more and new features at no cost, $0.- since it's first release Todd, you have had the privilege of purchasing GNS v2.0 for the excellent price of $0. This was a free upgrade (there are still some of this information availble through our press releases by the way: http://www.reality-xp.com/aboutrealityxp/p...3/11aug03.html). GNS v2.0 release was followed with 3 or 4 updates afterward, adding new features for free.- then, you have had the chance to purchase GNS v5.0 for the other exceptional price of $0! Including all v5 updates we have released.Over 6 years, for an initial $15 purchase, you have been flying hours and hours for nearly free, with a product we updated for free through FS2002, then FS2004, from v1 to v5, we the best GNS Simulation ever released for any Flight Simulation platform.I know at least some are considering being lucky Reality XP is still around, despite not charging a single dollar from v1 to v5, to continue working and releasing new products with new features for new simulators.If this can help, I see some perceiving the value of GNS WAAS Unlimited only through 2 functions, TCAD and Cross Fill, that seems to be not worth that much money.Let me try to explain again what GNS WAAS Unlimited contains:1) one additional license to run a 430 and one additional license to run a 530 (these are like having 2 more GNS WAAS simulation devices).2) Cross Fill capability between any type of GNS WAAS unit, the value of which depends on how/what you use it for3) Ryan 9900BX TCAD Simulation. It is not just displaying target on a screen. It is a faithfull Ryan 9900BX TCAD Simulation, made with the help of a license agreement with Ryan International (now purchased by Avidyne).This last point is important. To some, TCAS in flight sim is displaying TCASII-like symbols on a screen, ala radar gauge: there are some gauges like these, merely doing any collision computations, costing about $15 like this one: http://emarciano.free.fr/En/index.htmOur Ryan 9900BX simulation uses the same TCASII Mark7 engine we have developed, which passes the industry standard 250 TSIM tests. It is the most authentic TCASII simulation available for Flight Simulator, something that would be licensed around $50.000 in real world training and simulation applications.Our TCAD simulation is not just diplaying targets on the screen. It is near-real TCASII Mark7 computations of threats, running in a Ryan 9900BX simulation, which communicates internally with the GNS WAAS Simulation. Even the GNS WAAS TCAD menu and controls are communicating and working (to some extent) with the Ryan TCAD simulation which is integrated.

Maybe you feel that it would be worth that but to a non pilot and someone who is just uses Flight Sim as a GAME and as a HOBBY $1200 would be too much. You must not forget that MSFS is not a real world training product. It is a game.

Who decides if it's a real world training product? MSFS can be VERY MUCH of a real world training product. Just because I can't log official FAA sanctioned time on my PC; it doesn't mean that I can't use it for real world navigation practice, or for pre-flying un-known airports, etc.To the non-pilot, this software may be indeed too expensive. Afterall, it won't be for real world use, will it? So why complain from the standpoint of simming only? Personally, I think it's rather cheap considering all the other expenses we're forced to pay........................ just to fly little airplanes. For instance, insurance is $155 a month, for my little two seater. L.Adamson

Actually guys, look at what Microsoft did... They took a $50.00 product, stripped the EULA (End User License Agreement) restrictions from it, renamed it to a product called ESP and now it sells for $895.00 per copy and can be used for real world training, research and development etc. (FSX legally cannot) Is that wrong? Nope. Different audience, different purpose, different price point. Gentleman, it has finally gotten to a point where entertainment users expect real world equivalents and that is simply not a sustainable venue for what the entertainment audience will pay and what we have to do to make it happen. It's really that simple. I don't work for free... do you?Jim

I know more than you give me credit for. :(However, that's not the topic of discussion. I made a statement about a misleading statement from another person. That's all.

Maybe you should re-read again and my statement isn't misleading yours actually is more ;-)To be honest it says something about politeness and common courtesy not to give acomment like that over another commercial member his product and efforts.Hence I don't do that in public even over your products lol

I don't work for free... do you?

Nope, I don't. But, if I am perceived as overpriced I hear about it, and, have to decide to react or not. If I give what is perceived as a invalid point of reasoning to the buyer, I hear about it. I perceive the product as over priced, and don't buy the reasoning for 3 features, no matter. Rxp has already made it clear we've been heard, and we have seen the result.

Gentleman, it has finally gotten to a point where entertainment users expect real world equivalents and that is simply not a sustainable venue for what the entertainment audience will pay and what we have to do to make it happen. It's really that simple.

If this turns into a trend maybe we will see higher prices for better products (PMDG, F1 Mustang etc) and all be better off for it. Unfortunately it might also mean that the "cheap" price point becomes further littered with junk products, and, if higher prices do not equate to longevity for the good developers we lose it all. I do not believe that would be solely the buyers fault, IMHO.I wonder if FS developers would qualify for TARP funds? I would support it . . . :( Joe

I see why I normally do not participate in these types of posts because eventually it starts to go off topic and members start to imply things that have never been said.

What you are paying for is the work that went into programming so that you could have these features available in the sim. If that is something important enough for a user to justify the price then buy it, if you can't justify the price then don't buy it. Pummeling the developer for charging money for his time or expecting him to work for free so you can sit at home simming on an entertainment sim that you can't log time on doesn't really sound like a reasonable or realistic expectation to me.

I never pummeled the developer for charging money or expected him to work for free. That would be absolutely ridiculous. This thread here is about some who feel the product is a bit over-priced. Are we still allowed to voice our opinions around here?

Hi Todd, and thank you for bringing these valid points. Long time customers like you certainly have a different vision/experience with Reality XP than newer ones, so let me refresh some history facts that can help:- indeed, the GNS simulation was our second product after the Apollo. Customers of the Apollo have had the privilege at the time to purchase the GNS at an incredibly low and introductory price of $15. This was back nearly 6 years ago, with FS2002. We have release something around 5 updates from v1.0 to v1.5 with more and new features at no cost, $0.- since it's first release Todd, you have had the privilege of purchasing GNS v2.0 for the excellent price of $0. This was a free upgrade (there are still some of this information availble through our press releases by the way: http://www.reality-xp.com/aboutrealityxp/p...3/11aug03.html). GNS v2.0 release was followed with 3 or 4 updates afterward, adding new features for free.- then, you have had the chance to purchase GNS v5.0 for the other exceptional price of $0! Including all v5 updates we have released.Over 6 years, for an initial $15 purchase, you have been flying hours and hours for nearly free, with a product we updated for free through FS2002, then FS2004, from v1 to v5, we the best GNS Simulation ever released for any Flight Simulation platform.I know at least some are considering being lucky Reality XP is still around, despite not charging a single dollar from v1 to v5, to continue working and releasing new products with new features for new simulators.

I'm happy that Reality XP exists. I have proved that by buying more than just the items I mentioned previously. But I'm sorry Jean Luc I don't get what receiving past GNS upgrades (I take it you are referring to the 530XP) have to do with the pricing of the new GNS Unlimited. It sounds like to me you are saying you got stuff for free in the past and you were under-charged so now pay a premium price for this addon to make up for it.

Let me try to explain again what GNS WAAS Unlimited contains:1) one additional license to run a 430 and one additional license to run a 530 (these are like having 2 more GNS WAAS simulation devices).

What? Uh okaaaay!

Who decides if it's a real world training product? MSFS can be VERY MUCH of a real world training product. Just because I can't log official FAA sanctioned time on my PC; it doesn't mean that I can't use it for real world navigation practice, or for pre-flying un-known airports, etc.

Ok point well taken.

To the non-pilot, this software may be indeed too expensive. Afterall, it won't be for real world use, will it? So why complain from the standpoint of simming only?

Maybe because we eagerly anticipated said product but was shocked off of the planet by the price? Again do we now live in world where opinions are suppressed? The feeling I get from some of the posts is, sit down, shut up, be happy with what you have, and don't complain whether you like it or not. I mean no one complained when U.S. gasoline approached $5 a gallon? None of you real pilots voiced your opinions when aviation fuel was between $6 and $8 a gallon? I'm normally don't voice my opinions around here for the reasons I just mentioned. I should have bit my lip on this thread too!

Actually guys, look at what Microsoft did... They took a $50.00 product, stripped the EULA (End User License Agreement) restrictions from it, renamed it to a product called ESP and now it sells for $895.00 per copy and can be used for real world training, research and development etc. (FSX legally cannot) Is that wrong? Nope. Different audience, different purpose, different price point. Gentleman, it has finally gotten to a point where entertainment users expect real world equivalents and that is simply not a sustainable venue for what the entertainment audience will pay and what we have to do to make it happen. It's really that simple. I don't work for free... do you?

Once more, I do not expect anyone to work for free.I'm starting to come to grips that the reality of the matter is the Flight Sim hobby is changing. It's becoming a bit expensive. (Well at least it is to me but obviously not to some others) I've been simming since purchasing Flight Simulator II in 1984. I've owned every version of Flight Sim since then. I've purchased countless addons totaling in the thousands. The price of addons is climbing and that is to be expected to a certain degree. What's hard to take is some of the drastic increases. I mean this is like purchasing a car for $25000 and then four years later the very same car costs $100000 and it really isn't any different from the older version. In my eyes that wouldn't be a justifiable increase. But yes in the real world that actually happens. I'll get over the initial sticker shock and move on. Actually I already have. But I mean I'm not allowed to talk about it and share my opinions with others? I guess I should have (and others who also posted here and on other forums about the price) kept my mouth closed (actually my fingers tied) and just shook my head and moved on without saying anything.Todd

I'll get over the initial sticker shock and move on. Actually I already have. But I mean I'm not allowed to talk about it and share my opinions with others? I guess I should have (and others who also posted here and on other forums about the price) kept my mouth closed (actually my fingers tied) and just shook my head and moved on without saying anything.Todd

Todd in my opinion every one is entitled to share in a polite manner their thoughts (that's called a discussion and sharing different point of views).But if you compare for example software from the earlier 80/90/2000 or earlier with now there is huge different in complexity/possibilities/functionality.Back then it was a simple wire frame on screen lolI agree that software in general should be available for everybody to enjoy (some will disagree here) but then again it takes so much more time to develop.Countless hours and I bet you don't want to work for that financial reward per hour...Do some 3ds max (and I'm pretty fast there) work it takes a lot of time.Actually it's real simple the more realistic software you want / increased development cycle / increase in price...In my opinion that is just fair.