The whole point of the store is to give 3rd party developers a place to sell their add-ons. Microsoft has already said they can't do it all themselves. Couldn't be more clear.

+1, Most users in FSX probably DON'T know that addons are out there.

IMO With MS Flight's upcoming 'app store' the business of 3rd party publishing and sales of FS addons will likely be finished. The MS Flight Terms of Use might state that the official app store (with M$ taking a cut) is the only legal way to get payware addons. If that happens the likes of Flight1, Just Flight and SimMarket will go out of business.It's rather obvious that Microsoft decided on something Aerosoft didn't like and the latter is trying to branch out to X-Plane.As long as a new MSFS remains on the radar (Unless MS Flight truly bombs, i.e. Simcity Societies) Any other flight sim, including X-plane and those by Aerosoft will be a sideshow. MS simply has too much market power and Aerosoft isn't going to pull the trigger on what could be their most expensive project ever if they know that they'll have to compete with FS.

Can you name another game that has a very strong 3rd party development and mod'ing community that uses the model you are anticipating?

The whole point of the store is to give 3rd party developers a place to sell their add-ons. Microsoft has already said they can't do it all themselves. Couldn't be more clear.

I think the point avantime was making was not that 3rd party developers would be put out of bussiness, but that 3rd party publishers (the folks that run the online stores, create the piracy protection system wrappers, etc) would (assuming Flight goes with an in-app addon store only model - I have no more idea on that one than any one else here :-> ).Tim

Perhaps so Tim, but I suspect that there will still be enough of the "unconverted" who choose to remain with FS9 and/or FSX to keep the lights on for another few years... :(

Can you name another game that has a very strong 3rd party development and mod'ing community that uses the model you are anticipating?

It's a good question.I think iRacing might qualify...I'm not sure (???).Myself, I think many of their choices are actually holding iRacing back....which is too bad.I'd love to have a harcore car racing sim for the PC.

I'd love to have a harcore car racing sim for the PC.

+1! Maybe we can talk Microsoft into developing Microsoft Race.

+1! Maybe we can talk Microsoft into developing Microsoft Race.

Forza is pretty much "Microsoft Race."

+1, Most users in FSX probably DON'T know that addons are out there.

I think that having MSFS add-ons on Games for Windows Marketplace will increase exposure and increase overall industry sales. I have to admit, until FSX I only had limited awareness of what was available for payware. I believe the only upgrade I had previously purchased was a scenery package of Washington DC for FS 5.0 produced by Mallard. Now I'm spending around $500 a year on software and hardware upgrades. Unfortunately the developers that will benefit the most initially will likely be the ones that churn out a lot of low quality eye candy. But eventually it should increase the awareness of those buying Flight about the add-on potential.Aerosoft has always poo-poo'ed the download market. Seems they are getting the lion's share of their revenues from physical disc sales in Germany. Yet others like Orbx seem to do fine with that distibution model and seem ready to welcome Flight.

Can you name another game that has a very strong 3rd party development and mod'ing community that uses the model you are anticipating?

None, but Microsoft doesn't need a strong 3rd party development community, all they need to make the community profitable for Microsoft. Remember this is the same company that charges people for multiplayer with XBox live gold subscriptions and If they can can monetize the FS addons market they will, even at the expense of the community. To be honest they might even charge people to play FS online or download live weather.The app store model is too profitable for anyone to ignore now, EA just ditched Steam for Crysis 2 so they can promote their own store, Origin.

To be honest they might even charge people to play FS online or download live weather.

:(

None, but Microsoft doesn't need a strong 3rd party development community, all they need to make the community profitable for Microsoft. Remember this is the same company that charges people for multiplayer with XBox live gold subscriptions and If they can can monetize the FS addons market they will, even at the expense of the community. To be honest they might even charge people to play FS online or download live weather.The app store model is too profitable for anyone to ignore now, EA just ditched Steam for Crysis 2 so they can promote their own store, Origin.

There is a huge risk in forgetting the flight community. Some percentage of sales come folks active in the community, and from those that might not be active, but the community influenced their purchases. If this group of people generates a larger revenue stream vs. MS totally controlling the addon marketplace, its in MS interest to leave the community intact.

There is a huge risk in forgetting the flight community. Some percentage of sales come folks active in the community, and from those that might not be active, but the community influenced their purchases.

Yes it's a big risk, but I've seen crazier things done by game developers in the past. Things like horse armor for Oblivion, $70 Monocles and virtual clothes that are more expensive than real clothes in EVE Online, non-deletable save games hard coded into the cartridge in Resident Evil Mercenaries for 3DS to prevent 2nd hand game sales, no dedicated servers in MW2 etc. Strange things happen when accountants get into the gaming business, and MS ain't short of accountants.

If this group of people generates a larger revenue stream vs. MS totally controlling the addon marketplace, its in MS interest to leave the community intact.

That "larger revenue stream" is not being earned by MS, so therefore it's useless to them. MS will always choose to earn a small revenue stream than to have a large revenue stream floating around the community and doing nothing to MS's bottom line, and if that's the case then they might as well make it a monopoly with the app store. I have little doubt that most devs will jump ship if they're being pushed by MS, unless the modding restrictions are truly restrictive. As long as the devs are around the community will survive, even if Flight1 and Simmarket went to the wall. Now Aerosoft is in a dilemma here as the company is both a major developer and publisher, (e.g. Simcheck, Boxed PMDG products) so it's in their best interest to diversify to X-plane without completely giving up on Flight. I expect Aerosoft to push X-plane much harder into the community with more addons because I think their time is up with Flight.The worst case scenario would be that MS Flight will exist inside the closed system that is Games for Windows, (e.g. sign in with your gamertag every time you start the game) and with its own app store monopoly. external modules like FSUIPC and programs such as Radar Contact will be banned. Online play and live weather will be reclassified as premium features and MS will package them into something similar to LA Noire's Rockstar Pass, something like "Pay $9.99 to get these premium features and a 20% discount on all future official MS Flight DLCs."

The funny thing is that we generally agree that the Flight target audience is not us and that the target audience is not likely to buy add-ons for the simple reason that they would not play the game long enough or would not care about add-on quality products. So, who is going to buy stuff from this new store. Surely not I, if it is a closed MS community and I smell the grubby hands of greedy MS accountants. In fact, I will likely not reward MS by buying Flight in the first place and would hope that the rest of the community would do the same.Btw, if Flight will not have a compatible FSUIPC version, it will be a deal breaker for many people as well.

The worst case scenario would be that MS Flight will exist inside the closed system that is Games for Windows, (e.g. sign in with your gamertag every time you start the game) and with its own app store monopoly. external modules like FSUIPC and programs such as Radar Contact will be banned. Online play and live weather will be reclassified as premium features and MS will package them into something similar to LA Noire's Rockstar Pass, something like "Pay $9.99 to get these premium features and a 20% discount on all future official MS Flight DLCs."

That is a very good point. Napoleon once said '' Conquer, Dominate and Exploit'' more latterly, a maxim adopted religiously by large companies with avaricious ambitions. I am not saying Microsoft will..but will certainly be given the opportunity and platform to exploit 'The Store' to maximise the best possible profit for themselves. To expand on the previous post... Microsoft could, as a way of launching Flight, offer for $/£ 5 per month unlimited downloads; real weather, scenery etc. After 6 months this goes up to $/£ 15. After a year a super 'Platinum Service' will be introduced where for £/$ 75 per month you get pretty much want you want, forever, until the goal posts have been changed again. Of course, as a consumer we have a choice and can say No ! but who wants to be flying around with default scenery ? I would like to think this would be all unlikely, however, look how other large conglomerates have hiked up prices all in the name of providing ' The best possible service and value for the consumer' Sadly, this is common throughout the industrial world, so why wouldn't it happen here ?Companies that are part of this oligarch will obviously benefit from this (which is perfectly fair) and if this somehow protects or prevents piracy then so much the better. I worry however, that the store will become part of a closed shop, to a few but large/or influential companies. 'Big' companies do not necessarily offer the best products. So where would this leave the small but in many cases highly talented freeware developers ? some freeware products are dubious, but others clearly surpass the pay-ware alternative. In fact some freeware products are really superb (which I always appreciate by digging where I can into my Paypal pocket). I will be very interested to see whether The Store allows small and talented developers into this 'inner circle' and more importantly whether these developers continue, or to be precise, are able to produce outstanding products, at no cost to us, for our benefit and enjoyment.Tristan

@ Tristan, good post.Flight will be a game changer this time, the old way of downloading and flying is gone.FSX is far from been killed by Flight, freeware dev. can still make scenery for FSX.