Go-around performance issues

[HiFly 16]

I hope I can get some NGX response on this issue as well as from any fellow sim-pilots who may be able to shed some light on what is going on here. According to FCOM pressing TOGA during a coupled approach should discontinue approach mode and enter GA mode (which it does). Power should immediately increase to GA setting and the aircraft pitch level and then up. The AP will disconnect but the aircraft should continue to pitch up to maintain ASI window speed (which should be Vref+5 or so). Pilot action is to immediately retract to Flaps 15 and after established in position climb, retract gear. The plane should continue at GA power setting and positive climb attitude. (Miss approach altitude needs to have been already set in the altitude window, BTW.) Well, that is not what happens! On initiation of TOGA it displays GA and powers up and pitches level and then as I raise flaps to F15 the power begins to reduce toward idle causing the plane to descend! In order to increase power I have to override or disconnect the AT and manually control pitch and power. Why the power reduction? This is not SOP according to the manuals and it is not SOP in any aircraft I have flown (sim or otherwise). Now is it some procedural error on my part or is this a glych? The main issue is that according to SOP in the FCOM initiating a GA with TOGA selection the plane will remain at high thrust until another mode is selected. Concern is expressed that it may overshoot initial miss-approach altitude or overspeed. It should maintain pitch attitude that maintains the correct speed within the envelope of the flap selected. It is implied that reselecting a CMD mode and initiating VNAV/LNAV in the climbout will AT THAT POINT take the plane out of GA mode but not before some such intervention by AP or pilot.

[RudiJG1 136]

This issue has been noted, and I believe that PMDG is looking into it with a possible fix to be incorporated in the upcoming service pack. I've experienced this issue as well.

[skysurfer 46]

Hi. The strange thing is that PMDG declared that NG was tested so deeply so almost no issues at all. But looks like they have missed a very important part of testing, which is Go Around procedure and performance. I have the same issue and I have to manually control the power. That is odd.

[vibraman 0]

yep same here, let´s give them some time... tarik

[vibraman 0]

i just found out on the fmc you have different n1 setting options. my GA is at 96.4. maybe this value is wrong? on ga shouldn´t it be full power? any tips? tarik

[Lawyer+Pilot 126]

i just found out on the fmc you have different n1 setting options. my GA is at 96.4. maybe this value is wrong? on ga shouldn´t it be full power? any tips? tarik

Not full power necessarily. You don't want to overheat the engines for the sake of a go-around. Although the EECs limit N1, they don't provide EGT protection. Most airlines are also concerned with fuel efficiency. That's why there are reduced/derated power settings in the CDU.

[RYR738 8]

i just found out on the fmc you have different n1 setting options. my GA is at 96.4. maybe this value is wrong? on ga shouldn´t it be full power? any tips? tarik

You can press Toga a second time to go to full thrust !!

[HiFly 16]

My error. In re-reading FCOM, a miss-approach will NOT be automatic unless it is an autoland approach. I wrongly assumed that it would pitch up on its own due to the increase in power input but it makes sense that it would not sustain it without pilot input. The FD will indicate pitch but it must be input manually by pilot. If not the power will decrease to maintain the ASI setting. Seems the PMDG NGX may, in fact, be performing according to specs in the manual. My understanding then is that it will hold power setting as long as it is manually pitched up as commanded by FD. Full GA power would be available if necessary by a second TOGA press(?) I will try it on my next flight.

[Lawyer+Pilot 126]

My error. In re-reading FCOM, a miss-approach will NOT be automatic unless it is an autoland approach. I wrongly assumed that it would pitch up on its own due to the increase in power input but it makes sense that it would not sustain it without pilot input. The FD will indicate pitch but it must be input manually by pilot. If not the power will decrease to maintain the ASI setting. Seems the PMDG NGX may, in fact, be performing according to specs in the manual. My understanding then is that it will hold power setting as long as it is manually pitched up as commanded by FD. Full GA power would be available if necessary by a second TOGA press(?) I will try it on my next flight.

If I'm not mistaken, even if it's an autoland approach, GA is not automated.

[HiFly 16]

If I'm not mistaken, even if it's an autoland approach, GA is not automated.

See FCTM 5.85. It is fully automated - both autopilots are on and initially will handle pitch and heading until another mode intervention.

[Lawyer+Pilot 126]

See FCTM 5.85. It is fully automated - both autopilots are on and initially will handle pitch and heading until another mode intervention.

Ok. Looks like I need to re-read the auto flight section of the FCTM. Hehehehehe. Thanks.

[Spin737 102]

You can press Toga a second time to go to full thrust !!

So you're saying the N1 will go over 96.4?

[Spin737 102]

I would imagine he means full Go-Around thrust !! A 2nd push of TOGA will give you that.

How come you and Retired Captain Frederic use the same idiosyncratic punctuation?

[scandinavian13 5,187]

First, sign your name to your post - forum rules. Second, your conspiracy theory is hilarious. If your business plan is so sound, go start one. It's not that easy. Third, if you spent 5 minutes reading the posts here on the forums, having the customers beta the software would likely be counterproductive. Most people around here don't know what the sim is actually supposed to be doing. Most have an idea, but most with that idea are sophomoric enough to believe their knowledge is complete and infallible, and would flag things as bugs even though they really aren't. The dev team would then be lost in trying to track what is actually a bug and what is not. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but you should first understand the alternate opinions before you should assert your own as the correct way.

[FDX016 - Nick 34]

I hope I can get some NGX response on this issue as well as from any fellow sim-pilots who may be able to shed some light on what is going on here. According to FCOM pressing TOGA during a coupled approach should discontinue approach mode and enter GA mode (which it does). Power should immediately increase to GA setting and the aircraft pitch level and then up. The AP will disconnect but the aircraft should continue to pitch up to maintain ASI window speed (which should be Vref+5 or so). Pilot action is to immediately retract to Flaps 15 and after established in position climb, retract gear. The plane should continue at GA power setting and positive climb attitude. (Miss approach altitude needs to have been already set in the altitude window, BTW.) Well, that is not what happens! On initiation of TOGA it displays GA and powers up and pitches level and then as I raise flaps to F15 the power begins to reduce toward idle causing the plane to descend! In order to increase power I have to override or disconnect the AT and manually control pitch and power. Why the power reduction? This is not SOP according to the manuals and it is not SOP in any aircraft I have flown (sim or otherwise). Now is it some procedural error on my part or is this a glych? The main issue is that according to SOP in the FCOM initiating a GA with TOGA selection the plane will remain at high thrust until another mode is selected. Concern is expressed that it may overshoot initial miss-approach altitude or overspeed. It should maintain pitch attitude that maintains the correct speed within the envelope of the flap selected. It is implied that reselecting a CMD mode and initiating VNAV/LNAV in the climbout will AT THAT POINT take the plane out of GA mode but not before some such intervention by AP or pilot.

Same problem in this thread as well. http://forum.avsim.n...ustperformance/ I submitted a support ticket around HF2 time in which I was told it would be looked into. I've reopened it and will go see if it's been replied to shortly,