Actually I do know a thing or two about procedural rendering, but what you said above is not the same as your original comment:"Perhaps MS is using real time procedurally generated terrain that just renders the terrain in the area that you're flying in."

Why is it that so many people on the AVSIM forums are sooo argumentative? (Now I remember why I stopped coming here.)I present my own possible THEORY on Flight's scenery, and immediately people like you try to discredit my post.Look, there are MULTIPLE ways of doing and using procedurally rendered scenery. So you're suddenly an expert in ALL of them (including ones that are still possibly part of MS's NDA)?And you misunderstood what I was trying to say in my 1st post on this . . . Because I didn't write exactly what I was trying to say correctly.Which is why I tried to clarify it in my previous post.

It is extremely unlikely that Flight will make use of textures and terrain generated procedurally in real-time. Unless there has been some revolutionary break through in procedural algorithms (and there hasn't been) then what was said in that thread from two-years ago remains true today.

So you're now claiming to be an expert on this stuff? I mean, you must really be in the loop to make a statement like that.

We're talking gigabytes of data (if you want high quality geometry and textures) that would have to be constantly streamed to the customer's computers during play. Since few of us have the luxury of a T3 line in our home then this is obviously impractical and unrealistic.

Read my previous post again. Where did I ever state or infer that the data would have to be "constantly streamed?"

Read my previous post again. Where did I ever state or infer that the data would have to be "constantly streamed?"

You did not make such a statement at all. In fact "constantly streaming" would be quite idiotic. Once downloaded it would be archived and indexed on the user's hard drive for any future use.In fact, even the original "stream" could be as small as a single QID cell that's immediately ahead of the aircraft's current position.On the other hand, since I truly do not believe that "Flight" will be restricted to only on-line use, I also doubt that the above will be either required or available. There are still far too many potential new flightsimmers who have access only to dial up or data restricted accounts to make such a scheme profitable or desireable.

(Now I remember why I stopped coming here.)

Please keep posting here, you have great ideas.

Why is it that so many people on the AVSIM forums are sooo argumentative?

I'm not being argumentative. You suggested that Flight could be using real-time procedural generation, and I simply explained why that was unlikely. You then changed your statement and accused me of not knowing what I was talking about which actually did strike me as argumentative. Sorry, but how would you have liked me to respond?

I present my own possible THEORY on Flight's scenery, and immediately people like you try to discredit my post.

I simply pointed out that it was unlikely and explained my reasoning. I'm not sure why you're taking this so personally.

And you misunderstood what I was trying to say in my 1st post on this . . . Because I didn't write exactly what I was trying to say correctly.

So how is that my fault?

Read my previous post again. Where did I ever state or infer that the data would have to be "constantly streamed?"

You didn't, but that's the only way the system you proposed could work in any practical sense. Either that or you tell Flight where you want to fly and then go to the mall for a few hours while it fetches the scenery data.But this is all moot, really, because Flight will install 10GB of Hawaiian scenery off the DVD, and if you want other areas (and, incidentally, a larger installation size) then you'll need to buy the add-on packs.

You guys are also leaving out the fact the MS is making Flight an online sim, so what if all the procedural rendering was done on Flight's main server? Then the area that you needed for your flight would be downloaded. Perhaps only Hawaii comes on the DVD, and everything else requires a download.

This is actually not fact. In an earlier news release, the team stated that Flight can be run offline.

Please keep posting here, you have great ideas.

Thanks. :) I'll hang around for a bit yet, but I don't like the way threads here always seem to deteriorate into personality clashes.

I'm not being argumentative. You suggested that Flight could be using real-time procedural generation, and I simply explained why that was unlikely. You then changed your statement and accused me of not knowing what I was talking about which actually did strike me as argumentative. Sorry, but how would you have liked me to respond?

Well, no. I didn't actually change my statement . . . I just attempted to clarify my initial post in my next post. And I did so BEFORE you criticized my 2nd post. (This is not an excuse, but I do have language issues, so I often have to edit my posts or post clarifications when I mess something up.)I felt that your posts were VERY condescending.The problem is that you ALWAYS try to come across like you're an expert on EVERYTHING, and present your THEORIES like they are the Gospel Truth. And then you ridicule other members' theories.

This is actually not fact. In an earlier news release, the team stated that Flight can be run offline.

Sigh . . .from MS Flight FAQ:Q: What is "Microsoft Flight?"A: "Microsoft Flight" is a new PC game from Microsoft Game Studios. The new title will be available on the Games for Windows - LIVE service and will bring a new perspective to the long-standing "Flight Simulator" franchise. From new game play elements and enhanced scenery and terrain to new aircraft and integrated content marketplace, it is an entirely new breed of virtual flight. The Games for Windows - LIVE platform sets the stage for all your virtual flight needs while connecting you to a global base of users, content and endless exploration. Microsoft Flight builds off its heritage of deep, immersive simulation and is redesigned to make the experience easier for virtual fliers of all interests and skills.Have you ever heard of Stream? It is similar to LIVE. Both are online game servers. You have to go online just to register your product, and no, you don't have to be online to play, but somethings are not available unless you are online (such as multiplayer, and perhaps additional scenery).

You suggested that Flight could e using real-time procedural generation, and I simply explained why that was unlikely.

Land class scenery is largely procedural, no?I'd say it's already in the mix.Anything that uses vector data rather than rasterized images; roads, railways, shorelines.It seems likely there’ll be a lot of pressure to keep the core of the game small, so it’s downloadable (if that’s how you choose to buy it). A company server like Live, opens up a bunch of new solutions to manage your install size. And I’m not talking about a marketplace. We haven’t heard the whole pitch yet so there’s not much to be said. But with Live your applications local installation could be much smaller....because you could opt out of installing content until you actually needed it.I’m not even saying that’s likely, just that there are a lot of unknowns here…a lot of them hinge on MS’s vision for Windows more than MS’s vision for Flight. It'll be interesting :)

Games for Windows Live does not equal the requirement for an Internet connection.You will also see that an Internet connection is not listed as a requirement on the Flight webpage.

ArwenRe Online/Offline......from the Flight website News section:NEWS FROM THE DEVELOPMENT TEAM January 28, 2011 - Play online or offline, the choice is yours.Greetings to all Flight fans! We would like to welcome you to our January “News from the Team” addition. First off, we hope you like the screen shots. We are happy to be able to share with you another check point in the development process. We are all working hard to bring you a truly exciting experience.We continue to receive and enjoy all your emails and comments via the Tell Microsoft Flight email alias. Although we cannot reply to each and every one, we do read these and appreciate the comments and suggestions.One topic that has been voiced is the concern over online game play. We understand some people are worried that featuring Microsoft Flight on Games for Windows – LIVE will require you to always be connected online to play. Not true. Rest assured that you can play offline if you choose. We hope that you will find the connected experience to be more enjoyable and immersive. But to be clear, the choice will be all yours.Thank you again for following our progress as we pass another waypoint.The Microsoft Flight Development TeamRegardsSteve

This is going to be my last post for a while. I admitted that I have language issues, but my reading comprehension is not an issue,It is NOT enjoyable for me when I try to share things here and then have to defend nearly everything that I write. You guys just want to fight about everything. I came here hoping to find a friendly simming community.I NEVER stated that you have to be online to fly with Flight. But I'm pretty sure you'll have to go online to activate this sim. One of the main reasons for LIVE is an attempt to decrease piracy. And there will be some features that will not be available unless you are online.What do you think the following means?"The Games for Windows - LIVE platform sets the stage for all your virtual flight needs while connecting you to a global base of users, content and endless exploration""Rest assured that you can play offline if you choose. We hope that you will find the connected experience to be more enjoyable and immersive. But to be clear, the choice will be all yours.

Please keep posting here, you have great ideas.

Yes. I agree. And it is nice to have another female on the forum.

Thanks. :) I'll hang around for a bit yet, but I don't like the way threads here always seem to deteriorate into personality clashes.Well, no. I didn't actually change my statement . . . I just attempted to clarify my initial post in my next post. And I did so BEFORE you criticized my 2nd post. (This is not an excuse, but I do have language issues, so I often have to edit my posts or post clarifications when I mess something up.)I felt that your posts were VERY condescending.The problem is that you ALWAYS try to come across like you're an expert on EVERYTHING, and present your THEORIES like they are the Gospel Truth. And then you ridicule other members' theories.Sigh . . .from MS Flight FAQ:Q: What is "Microsoft Flight?"A: "Microsoft Flight" is a new PC game from Microsoft Game Studios. The new title will be available on the Games for Windows - LIVE service and will bring a new perspective to the long-standing "Flight Simulator" franchise. From new game play elements and enhanced scenery and terrain to new aircraft and integrated content marketplace, it is an entirely new breed of virtual flight. The Games for Windows - LIVE platform sets the stage for all your virtual flight needs while connecting you to a global base of users, content and endless exploration. Microsoft Flight builds off its heritage of deep, immersive simulation and is redesigned to make the experience easier for virtual fliers of all interests and skills.Have you ever heard of Stream? It is similar to LIVE. Both are online game servers. You have to go online just to register your product, and no, you don't have to be online to play, but somethings are not available unless you are online (such as multiplayer, and perhaps additional scenery).

You are thinking the same as me, I explained this on another forum like a poker game online, you are all sitting at the same table (flight online) with different cards (what ever scenery or plane you got from the store) you can't see what the other players have in his hand (different players = different scenery) but you can play with him them..Sometimes we were well over 15,000 players in one tournament, 9 players per table, that is beside what was going on in other places on the site, other tournament, or games ....a lot of peoples with different cards and that was all live, so an MS server is something very plausible, you don't want to go online you play with what you have offline....we think alike Arwen.

This is going to be my last post for a while. I admitted that I have language issues, but my reading comprehension is not an issue,It is NOT enjoyable for me when I try to share things here and then have to defend nearly everything that I write. You guys just want to fight about everything. I came here hoping to find a friendly simming community.I NEVER stated that you have to be online to fly with Flight. But I'm pretty sure you'll have to go online to activate this sim. One of the main reasons for LIVE is an attempt to decrease piracy. And there will be some features that will not be available unless you are online.What do you think the following means?"The Games for Windows - LIVE platform sets the stage for all your virtual flight needs while connecting you to a global base of users, content and endless exploration""Rest assured that you can play offline if you choose. We hope that you will find the connected experience to be more enjoyable and immersive. But to be clear, the choice will be all yours.

Exactly....I said that about piracy a long time ago, online pay as you go....some are ready to pay Prepard3D every month to use it but get upset and cry just thinking of paying MS something to play Flight online....pffffPlease, you need to stay and share your ideas (not only because we think alike...lol) I know you have a thicker skin....keep writing what you think you feel is right....please....

So, let's see... Taking a look at this Forum in the last week the discussion about the "upcoming release from MS" (since even the mention of the Proper Name incites indigestion, elevated stress levels and an overall feeling of aggression) has gone from mundane postings about beverages to discussions about the competition to downright "you don't know jack about****; I know more than you do" and, resulting in at least one member leaving the Forum due to basically being ganged up on and attacked, to Forum threads being closed due to mud slinging and outright name calling.This isn't "informed conversation and spirited disagreement" regarding this issue; if I was a newcomer to this Forum I honestly wouldn't be able to tell if this was an adult conversation or a bunch of whining little kids trying to pump up their egos while attacking others who don't agree with the "Manifesto of what Flight IS GOING TO BE", according to the Chosen Few.IMHO... Close the ENTIRE MS Flight Forum, and don't re-open it UNTIL the Sim is RELEASED and has been on the shelves for a while, like about SIX MONTHS!In the meantime... take a vacation, fly the Sim, break glass bottles in a vacant lot, torment your families, whatever. Some of you need to take a step back and get some perspective, because all that's happening in this Hangar is some really sloppy and mean spirited hangar flying, and someone's going to auger in real soon.

"What do you think the following means?"The Games for Windows - LIVE platform sets the stage for all your virtual flight needs while connecting you to a global base of users, content and endless exploration"It means multi-player; the same kind of multi-player we have had for FS 2004 and FSX." But I'm pretty sure you'll have to go online to activate this sim."What if your computer you have Flight installed on isn't hooked up to the Internet? Will you be able to make a telephone call to MS just like you can with FSX?

"What do you think the following means?"The Games for Windows - LIVE platform sets the stage for all your virtual flight needs while connecting you to a global base of users, content and endless exploration"It means multi-player; the same kind of multi-player we have had for FS 2004 and FSX." But I'm pretty sure you'll have to go online to activate this sim."What if your computer you have Flight installed on isn't hooked up to the Internet? Will you be able to make a telephone call to MS just like you can with FSX?

Jim, you would be right on everything if Flight was like FSX, I can't remember....did FSX had a market store and a 10GB install requirement...and that is including new planes and sceneries....Endless exploration does not mean " the whole world included and available out of the box for one fixed price".....remember they have a store now.