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Differences in autolands? (CAT 111b and CAT 111A, 11)

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I just decided to fire up the sim to do see the NGX autolanding and it has left me a little confused. I landed on 08L at Vancouver and noticed that the aircraft landed itself with CMD being shown and only flare illuminated. If I understand correctly this would be because 08L is Category 111a approach. So with a CAT 111B approach LAND 3 and FLARE and ROLLOUT will be shown. Correct?What are the differences between CMD and FLARE being illiminated and LAND 3, FLARE and ROLLOUT being illuminated as the aircraft autolands in both situations. Sorry if this is an obvious question but the manual could not give me a definitive answer.ThanksRich.

David Andrew - desert based - a330/350 rated.

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It has nothing to do with the ground equipment or the type of approach category. You have a fail-passive system selected in the PMDG options and you can autoland with that, no problem. Some airlines pay extra bucks for fail-operational. Change the options, and you get it for free.

Matt Cee

Cat III a autolandCat III b autoland and rolloutCat III c Autoland, rollout and taxi.The ILS signal itsself has nothing to do with CAT III a or b. It is the aircraft, crew and a lot of details on the ground that make the difference. In FSX, you should be able to make a CATIII B approach on any ILS, I think.For Cat III B, you need to select some option in the FMC.Look at the PMDG-737NGX-Introduction, page 0.00.59Bert Van Bulck

"Rollout and taxi" ... what does that mean? It vacates the runway automatically?

Johan Pettersen

In theory, yes. I am not aware of any airport that has such system in place.This is because CAT IIIc is certifiable down to 0/0 minima, that of course means, that you cant see anything on the ground, not even taxiway lights.

--Peter Fabian 
RTFM.jpg

CAT IIIC is not taxi, it is ILS autoland with flare and rollout certified for 0/0 weather conditions, it does not make the airplane able to taxi by itself :)I do not know of any airport certified for Cat IIIC :)

Anders Weber 

 

ATPL(A) Student

EKBI - Billund, Denmark

In this case, CYVR 08L is Cat IIIa, but in FSX it shouldn't make any difference. I'm fairly certain (sic) that the Cat III "titled" ILS systems in FSX don't have dual transmitters or any other of the required standards to actually differentiate them from non Cat III systems.When we run Cat II or III operations we don't turn on a different ILS than when running Cat I, it's the same system running directly through an IPU and having protected critical areas.

i7-13700KF, 32gb DDR4 3200,  RTX 4080, Win 11, MSFS 2024

Anders: I think it does kind of mean that. Otherwise, what? You land, you stop, and thats it for the runway? Although maybe Enhanced Vision Systems are a way to go here.

--Peter Fabian 
RTFM.jpg

"Rollout and taxi" ... what does that mean? It vacates the runway automatically?
No, it will roll out on the runway. No runway vacation.Bert Van Bulck
CAT IIIC is not taxi, it is ILS autoland with flare and rollout certified for 0/0 weather conditions, it does not make the airplane able to taxi by itself :)I do not know of any airport certified for Cat IIIC :)
Category III C – A precision instrument approach and landing with no decision height and no runway visual range limitations. This category is not yet in operation anywhere in the world, as it requires guidance to taxi in zero visibility as well. "Category III C" is not mentioned in EU-OPS. Category III B is currently the best available system.Bert Van Bulck

I read somewhere that the gate can be programmed in the fmc,and the aircraft will automatically go to that gate.Not sure which aircraft this was relating to.

It has nothing to do with the ground equipment. You have a fail-passive system selected in the PMDG options and you can autoland with that, no problem. Some airlines pay extra bucks for fail-operational. Change the options, and you get it for free.
Cat III a autolandCat III b autoland and rolloutThe ILS signal it's self has nothing to do with CAT III a or b. It is the aircraft, crew and a lot of details on the ground that make the difference [iRL]. In FSX, you should be able to make a CATIII B approach on any ILS, I think.For Cat III B, you need to select some option in the FMC.Look at the PMDG-737NGX-Introduction, page 0.00.59Bert Van Bulck
Those two. I was going to decipher them for you, but I've got to get some sleep. Instead, I edited them to be less confusing.Besides, FSX doesn't differentiate ILS equipment. You can shoot a CATIII on any ILS equipped runway in the sim. It's a limitation of the sim. The rest is pretty self explanatory if you read the above.

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Category III C – A precision instrument approach and landing with no decision height and no runway visual range limitations. This category is not yet in operation anywhere in the world, as it requires guidance to taxi in zero visibility as well. "Category III C" is not mentioned in EU-OPS. Category III B is currently the best available system.Bert Van Bulck
It basically means that you can use the autopilot to land, flare and roll out but in 0/0 visibility conditions you can't taxi to the gate because you can't see anything.The idea was that an autopilot feature would be following coordinates (like from GPS, INS or other ground facilities) but the current aeronautical infrastructure does not provide this navigation yet...but CAT IIIc is the first installment towards such a system....

____________________________________________________

Dieter de Wit

Cat III a autolandCat III b autoland and rolloutCat III c Autoland, rollout and taxi.The ILS signal itsself has nothing to do with CAT III a or b. It is the aircraft, crew and a lot of details on the ground that make the difference. In FSX, you should be able to make a CATIII B approach on any ILS, I think.Bert Van Bulck
That's completely false. The ILS Category has everything to do with the equipment on the ground and nothing to do with the equipment in the aircraft. The major differences are that it has even better serf error checking systems then a lower category.And to clear up the misconception about CAT3c: you guys are taking guidance too literally. The idea is that at CAT3b visibility minimums you would still be able to see a bit in front of your aircraft and be able to follow a follow me car for (!!!) Guidance. In 0 visibility that car would not be visible therefore no guidance. The ILS will not guide you to your parking position.

Eric Bocaneanu

ROvACC Director

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I just decided to fire up the sim to do see the NGX autolanding and it has left me a little confused. I landed on 08L at Vancouver and noticed that the aircraft landed itself with CMD being shown and only flare illuminated. If I understand correctly this would be because 08L is Category 111a approach. So with a CAT 111B approach LAND 3 and FLARE and ROLLOUT will be shown. Correct?What are the differences between CMD and FLARE being illiminated and LAND 3, FLARE and ROLLOUT being illuminated as the aircraft autolands in both situations.Sorry if this is an obvious question but the manual could not give me a definitive answer.ThanksRich.
Hmmm...weird..I agree.I have set fail op if I remember right but despite having always the same setting into the FMC sometimes I can see LAND 3 and sometimes not. Let's say 50% of the landings.I land her manually so I aim for the LAND 3 each time to give me the initial guidance but sometimes I can see LAND 3 and sometimes CMD instead with no apparent reason and I always do the very same procedure to land.

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