Me too-but the point is the number of people that created it is not an issue for the consumer-and features will be compared.Another analogy-I buy a 2006 Bonanza. It has some problems which I fix by putting some money into it-and then I add some fancy avionics during my ownership and make further investments to it well exceeding the original price of the aircraft. Now a 2011 Cirrus is touted as being greatly improved and having lots of different features which are touted by some to be superior. Would it not be logical that I would take a look at this new aircraft, and then compare it to what I had and to what I had invested and decide whether it was worth moving to a different aircraft...and would it really matter to me how many people it took to build it?

It would have to have something special for me to pay a monthly. I havent been in the flight forums so I am not up to date. Iracing does have some special stuff so I do pay a monthly for that. Lets hope flight will want to make me spend some $$ :)

There's yet another way to look at it, which is to take into account not just the base price of each sim but also the cost of feeding it with add-ons. Right now it's fascinating and very enjoyable to watch X-Plane develop. But I can already feel the pinch as I try out X-Plane add-ons while trying to keep current with at least some of the good ones for FSX. For that practical reason, at some point I'll probably wind up chosing one sim or another (or a third - Flight - or a fourth - Prepar3d - they're all in play). So comparisons between the sims are very helpful - it's really just a basic kind of consumer reporting. As for comparisons with FSX as opposed to Flight - well, a couple of the major developers (A2A and Orbx come to mind) are talking in terms of a long-term (5+ year) commitment to FSX, so it's not necessarily going away anytime soon.Please note I'm not trying to start any religous wars here - just trying to talk realistically about the state of the marketplace. I'm still finding a lot to like in X-Plane 10 - in particular I'm using it a lot as a night helicopter simulator, since that seems to bring out most of its current strengths. I'm also flying my Aerosoft/4X Katana and my A2A aircraft in places like Orbx New Zealand SI, since at the moment X-Plane doesn't yet offer a comparable experience. Maybe someday, and if so I'll try to be there when it does. And if not, then maybe not. Again, at some point I'll probalby have to choose.EDIT: Sorry, Jason, you posted while I was typing. Yes, that's exactly my point - it's ultimately a matter of where the dollars (or currency of your choice) go(es)...

FSX had 283 developers working on it. The fact X-Plane is compared to it AT ALL is astounding. Considering X Plane was developed by only about half a dozen people.Let's wait until Flight is actually out before we start putting X Plane and Flight in the same sentence.

You wouldn't compare a 2010 mustang vs. a 2004 camaro if there was a 2011 camaro coming around the corner. I can certainly envy in the achievments of XPX, but not against a 6 year old sim, that's not fair, regaurdless of how many people are involved. Geofa put it well. We don't judge products by how many people were "involved", we just judge the product. Have you ever thought about how many people designed anything else that you have? Who cares?

Yes but the point I want to make is, why judge it against another sim?I wouldn't compare a Mustang to Camaro. Simply because they are different. Which is why I don't judge X Plane against FSX. X Plane has it's pro's and cons. FSX has its pro's and con's. They are individual. WHY compare them?Yet I constantly read posts by people who say "It has a long way to go before it catches up to FSX"As you say...Who cares?I, along with many others, prefer X Plane. For our own reasons.People like ma_v, Larry Adamson, yourself, prefer FSX, for your own reasons.For me to say you are wrong in your choice is improper. Just like it is for you to say that my choice is improper.Cant we just enjoy our hobby in our own way?

Cant we just enjoy our hobby in our own way?

Of course, I love this hobby, and both sims. We need this compitition to keep both of them honest, and better.

I don't really care for "reviews" of anything where virtually daily development, patching, "beta'ing", or whatever remains ongoing.It's not a bad read and might be considered an advanced preview if anything else.Then again I'm just grumpy as the XPX demo appears incompatible with my gfx driver set grumble grumble.

Hey all,Sam from Technologetic here. I saw a few people coming from here so I thought I'd check this post out. Toby is currently away unfortunately, otherwise I'd get him to post here. I've never used any flight sims for more than a few minutes so I'm not here to discuss Xplane or FSX.Just want to make it clear that Toby purchased this game like anyone else and we have not been given any material from Laminar. This review was written purely from experience and while Toby has an iMac he doesn't exclusively run OS X and therefore he has tried FSX for a small period of time.I agree on a few points you have mentioned which I'll fix up in a minute. Toby really enjoys X-Plane (10) and his review is pretty much based on his extensive time using X-Plane 9, and then moving to X-Plane 10 (and no he is not a pilot :( [in real life anyway]).I'll check back here if you have any questions or anything, but feel free to leave a comment on the post. I've approved any ones that have been left (I'll approve pretty much any comment unless there is spam/swearing).Thanks guys!

Yes but the point I want to make is, why judge it against another sim?I wouldn't compare a Mustang to Camaro. Simply because they are different. Which is why I don't judge X Plane against FSX. X Plane has it's pro's and cons. FSX has its pro's and con's. They are individual. WHY compare them?Yet I constantly read posts by people who say "It has a long way to go before it catches up to FSX"As you say...Who cares?I, along with many others, prefer X Plane. For our own reasons.People like ma_v, Larry Adamson, yourself, prefer FSX, for your own reasons.For me to say you are wrong in your choice is improper. Just like it is for you to say that my choice is improper.Cant we just enjoy our hobby in our own way?

I believe that it is perfectly logical to compare the two. FSX and XPX are the leading two civil aviation products on the market. As a flight sim enthusiast understanding how the active products compare is one of the elements of being a enthusiast. The "2010 mustang vs. a 2004 camaro if there was a 2011 camaro coming around the corner" logic doesnt work. At present, only two products exists, its natural to compare them. In this comparison, you might find that you like one for a certain type of flying and the other for a different type of flying.When the "2011" camaro comes out, if its still the same type of civil aviation sim" it will be the one compared to XPX. If its not the same type sim then FSX and XPX comparisons will continue.aside: for the record GoranM you compare the two daily :(

Not going to have this discussion with you.You've already accused me of lying before...and I've proven you wrong. I don't really have time for people who do that.

Yes but the point I want to make is, why judge it against another sim?

You wouldn't compare directly, but one would use their experiences with a variety of simulators (*or cars) to provide a reasonable assessment of the current crop.You should want someone who has used XPlane 10, XPlane9 and FSX, XPlane 8 and FS2004, Fly!II, Sierra ProPilot, and the vast plethora of other civilian simulators over the years to do your reviews because they will have a better understanding of how the other programs have done things up to now - giving them a breadth of experience to critically judge what is before them.A review of a Camaro from someone who has only driven a Camaro is indeed a "review", but it's going to have limited insight into the automobile industry. Likewise, a review of XPlane by someone who has only flown with the XPlane series will have an equally limited scope. It's going to read a little more like someone is simply validating the product marketing rather than an objective, critical review of the features inherent to the product:

• Chevy has moved the cupholder back three inches, the engine has 20 more horsepower but runs a little rough sometimes, and it has much touted new brakes, but they removed the spare tire, as we know. It drives awesome!! I love Camaros!
• Laminar has added what they call plausible cities, it has great flight dynamics, has improved weather representation but the water still stinks, and it flies awesome! I love X-Plane!

Personally, I'm not chewing apart the site's review for being overly positive because reviewer Toby (like a great many of you) will find fun and enjoyment in the product and that is great!! I'm disagreeing that it was a professional review due to the (apparent) experience of the individual doing the examination of the product. Hell - I don't even trust sites like GameSpy and the like to review flight simulators because nine times out of ten, the reviewer is coming from a position completely isolated from flight sims and aviation.Even though the demo is out and available for all of us to make our own decisions, I'm still interested in reading what the major flightsim sites publish about the product. In fact, I'm a little surprised none of them have weighed in yet.-Greg

I think different flight simulators can be compared because they generally have several points in common. The tricky part is doing so objectively without arbitrarily declaring that one or the other is superior.

There are things I like about FSX and things I like about XP9/10. The water looks much more realistic with far more accurate reflections of reality. I never see light blue or dark blue water, it usually has a murky dark color to it, even on the most beautiful day. That check mark goes to XP in my book. The quirkiness of the aircraft (default only) in XP lends me to like the aircarft in default FSX as they tend to be more stable and variable with the same settings from one aircraft to another. This aircraft rolls at 15 degrees per second while this one rolls at 15 degrees per minute with the same settings. The first is a light twin, the second a heavy airliner both with the same input on the controls. XP seems to behave similiar between airliners AND light aircraft. To get a realistic control limitation, I have to change the sensitivity between aircraft. This check mark goes to FSX. The autogen in FSX is far more plentiful than in XP10 as far as building/tree count, but the XP10 variety is more realistic looking (a forest actually looks like a forest and a housing development looks like a housing development). There's a good deal of change that needs to be brought to bring the autogen in XP10 up to par, but it's also very early in the development cycle, so there's hope. The clouds also are very lifelike in XP10 (especially when flying THROUGH them) whereas the rotating billboards in FSX look decent from a distance, but getting close sucks and leaves me very disappointed.There are plenty of things that I like about each sim. Will I fly one more than the other, probably. Will I fly one only? Absolutely not. If I'm flying VFR, I'll probably stick with FSX. If I'm flying airliners in IFR cross country at 30000', the environment in XP is very believable (until you get close to the airport). I'm usually so focused on the runway and instruments for the ILS/Localizer+Altimeter that I'm barely looking out the window at the buildings around the airport, so anything is fair game, as long as there's something.

Not going to have this discussion with you.You've already accused me of lying before...and I've proven you wrong. I don't really have time for people who do that.

what?? ..... i have never accused you of lying and you have never proven me wrong. ... What?, perhaps you are confusing me with someone else. You should read the posts directed at you and you can see that you compare the two fairly routinely.

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/354867-to-all-the-xp-10-haters/page__view__findpost__p__2177793And my replyhttp://forum.avsim.net/topic/354867-to-all-the-xp-10-haters/page__view__findpost__p__2177800Does that refresh your memory?Am I confusing you with someone else?