ORBX 33% off sale

[Alan_A 1,650]

Don't hold your breath Alan. Leopards and spots?

I hear you.

[kludger 7]

I almost replied there to Teecee urging a cool off period and point out JV's own words about how the pre-pay change was already decided and just not communicated yet and then JV even clarified that the preview shots would still be the same, so Teecee shouldn't feel as if anyone ruined his access to previews and updates and not blame, but I figured better to keep from adding fuel to the flame pot at this point.There were emotional responses on both sides, good to see Jeroen's retrospective on the tone of his original comments and then also good to see JV do similar toning down of his own response, I suspect the pressure of the releases and the holidays stress added to the emotional responses on both sides, either way I think we will all reconsider our innocent "support" of commercial vendors in the future and not take it for granted or assume any great love there, even in the case where the vendor has such a fun and active forum where there is lots of great participation from ORBX customers, fans and developers and makes you feel a goodwill customer/vendor relationship that maybe the boss JV doesn't feel. I suspect even if he doesn't feel the good will, some of the devs and obviously lots of us customers did as well.Anyhow good on you Jeroen for clarifying/apologizing for the original tone, and good on JV for clarifying his tone as well and especially removing the snarky "internet dating" jab, hopefully they will prune Teecee's response as well since at this point it is factually incorrect and may just continue the flames where otherwise everyone is best served by a cool off period on the topic.

[slait 169]

Yeah I think my visits to their forum will only come when support for their products are required as I now know that it isn't a community they are providing. By JV's own admission, any resemblance to a community on their forums is a result of their forum moderation, which I felt odd as I assumed it was the customers that frequent the forum that made that community possible. So, many times I have felt JV's comments to be harsh and more centered around making him feel good about his leadership than it was to provide for his customers, so now it makes it that much easier to leave their house to them unless it's absolutely necessary. I'll keep an eye on their sales, and buy if/when the [price is right, but I've got enough drama and ego to deal with in the real world and don't really need it from my off hours hobby.

[GHarrall 494]

Lo and behold...the missing post is back, but the thread is locked with a response from JV.Maybe we are heading in the right direction....

[lthendrix 25]

And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny. And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house, Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day. But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?this sums it up

[altstiff 71]

I hear you.

I'm with you Alan.I pre-paid for PAKT on October 31st, downloaded it on December 23rd (day it was released) and it was on sale 18% cheaper on December 27th. And no one at ORBX sees anything wrong with that? It is my own fault as I am a sucker!Then to top the blundering PR move,the CEO insults his customers and calls us greedy and selfish (my name is posted here too and ORBX can look to see exactly how much money I have spent with them, I wonder if ORBX would send me a personal email to tell me as such after looking to see how much coin I have spent with them?).I feel the way they acted after this entire fiasco is the real crime here. Not that they suckered me into pre paying.

[Alan_A 1,650]

Lo and behold...the missing post is back, but the thread is locked with a response from JV.Maybe we are heading in the right direction....

Well, that would be a good thing.

I'm with you Alan.I pre-paid for PAKT on October 31st, downloaded it on December 23rd (day it was released) and it was on sale 18% cheaper on December 27th. And no one at ORBX sees anything wrong with that? It is my own fault as I am a sucker!Then to top the blundering PR move,the CEO insults his customers and calls us greedy and selfish (my name is posted here too and ORBX can look to see exactly how much money I have spent with them, I wonder if ORBX would send me a personal email to tell me as such after looking to see how much coin I have spent with them?).I feel the way they acted after this entire fiasco is the real crime here. Not that they suckered me into pre paying.

Fair enough. But if they're willing to back off a little bit from that, then I'm willing to give peace a chance, too. My main problem was with tone, so if tone changes on their side, I'm willing to try a change of tone, too, at least to see how it goes.

[Doc943 0]

I talked to JV a few times at the very beginning of VOZ way before Orbx. I can't deny he's a talented developer and his results are superb but John has a determined mind and never took criticism well, most responses being aggressive and almost childlike even then.Frankly I don't know where the MSFS hobby is going but I will do my very best to distinguish gifted amateurs from true entrepreneurs. The choice will always be mine and I will always bear the risk. I feel great empathy for those that have been ripped off as their expectation of quality and fairness has not included the customer experience, but most all of us have been disappointed by some parts of our hobby in some way in the past. (How much have I spent on chasing much promised FPS?!?) :-)

[scott967 62]

And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny. And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house, Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day. But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?this sums it up

Well, yes, I guess a lot of people have difficulty with that teaching, but I'm not sure I would raise Orbx to the level of religion.I would say my CRM download is going slow, so I don' think I'm the only one who bought something?scott s..

[lthendrix 25]

Basically the same holds true. those folks in the story agreed to a set wage. and when people buy a product at a certain price that is what they agreed to at the time ; ... and they thought it was a good deal then. also it is not about religion it is about human nature. although some do treat orbx as a religion LOL !! happy new year !!!

[Great Ozzie 101]

but SPECIFICALLY naming two loyal forum members/customers and publicly scolding them is beyond good sense.

although Jeroen and Stephen was it really necessary to post 3-4 times each?

You think this is a public scolding??? Such a simple question??? :(

But, years later we find out that the relationship is NOT that important at all.

I think you are misconstruing what John has said... especially his actions. The Business <-> Consumer relationship is obviously important. My observation is there are a number of people who have elevated themselves (in their own mind) that they have some sort of special "in" or position with the company due to their posts & vociferous support / number of purchases etc. (As I said before) somehow the company "owes them".So when John makes the comment "not an internet dating site" you see this over the top reaction by the above described individuals.

For years I thought that ORBX was building a business by creating satisfied customers. Customers willing to pay full price for the ability to download the scenery 24 hours before release.

Ok wait a minute here José...We have a group of hard-core loyal customers willing to pay full price no questions asked... solely based on their perceived support of the company...Then, when that company happens to have a sale (which falls, by their reckoning, a bit too close to their last purchase) this hard-core group is ready to burn the house down? I don't get it. What happened to all that loyal support? Where's the, "Well I paid full price and I feel good about it because I am a dyed-in-the-wool company supporter."?

this is not about building friendships, and, I'm not their friend.

Precisely. We can cheer for them. Hope for their continued success. Spread the word to people we meet how much we enjoy their product. Purchase their product when a competitor's product is similar...But at the end of the day, we are not their drinking buddies... we are a consumer of their products.Btw José... money is not the root of all evil...It is the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.

Perhaps you are right Rob, it is foolish to invest anything more than money in a business or consumer purchase; loyalty and expectation of shared friendship and trust is misplaced... Certainly you have a lot less to lose than some of the rest of us, who might have invested our emotions as a bit of our hearts, as well as our funds.

No... I had something to lose. John Venema has delineated what I have lost in a recent post. Such is the consequence of the "loyalty and expectation"... the obsession... you and others have demonstrated (in this case) towards Orbx.John said, "these policy changes have been planned for quite some time" but it is this group of Orbx "######" who hastened (imo) these changes bringing them to fruition. This is what leaves a sour taste in my mouth and a great big sarcastic "Thanks" to all you all who could not act more like adults and less like infatuated teens.Again I say... all you all who say you are such big supporters of Orbx and so loyal... who support them "full price pre-pay"... you can't keep your mouths shut... or if you do open them, you do it in a respectful and thoughtful manner... and maybe in a more appropriate medium... say... I don't know... in a PM to the CEO rather than whining and commiserating with each other at another forum (which "absolutely, positively" does no real good)... all because you got 15% off and not 33%??? Where is the loyalty you proclaim? The "shared friendship"... friends don't run around backbiting each other... at least not friends of mine. They have a problem with me (or me with them) then we work it out "face to face" as adults should.Stephen, you do a lot of good here and I appreciate so many of the posts you (and the others I refer to) make here at AVSIM. Y'all are a smart, hardworking and friendly bunch. But you see I am in the same boat with you and now I have lost too.-Rob

[N400QW 205]

² “Everything is meaningless,” says the Teacher, “completely meaningless!”³ What do people get for all their hard work under the sun? ⁴ Generations come and generations go, but the earth never changes. ⁵ The sun rises and the sun sets, then hurries around to rise again. ⁶ The wind blows south, and then turns north. Around and around it goes, blowing in circles. ⁷ Rivers run into the sea, but the sea is never full. Then the water returns again to the rivers and flows out again to the sea. ⁸ Everything is wearisome beyond description. No matter how much we see, we are never satisfied. No matter how much we hear, we are not content.⁹ History merely repeats itself. It has all been done before. Nothing under the sun is truly new. ¹⁰ Sometimes people say, “Here is something new!” But actually it is old; nothing is ever truly new. ¹¹ We don’t remember what happened in the past, and in future generations, no one will remember what we are doing now.

Well spoken then and now Brian, Wondering how many here know the source? :(

[Paul J 349]

Does knowing it came from Ecclesiastes imply some measure of being 'smarter' or 'better' than those that don't? Please don't drag the bible into an already bitter and antagonistic thread.

[Great Ozzie 101]

It sounded to me like King Solomon especially the "There is nothing new under the sun" but the style and manner of this passage made me think it was penned by someone else who was influenced by Solomon's writings.A quick google search explained why I did not immediately recognize the book and author. That and I do not spend anywhere near the amount of time I should in those "collected works".

Does knowing it came from Ecclesiastes imply some measure of being 'smarter' or 'better' than those that don't?

It may imply some measure of humility knowing we are nowhere near as "smart" as we think we are or should be...And what is wrong "dragging in" a measure of wisdom that far exceeds the measure of wisdom anyone of us has? Not "dragging it in" smacks of hubris and arrogance... those are truly the things not needed in this thread.

[N400QW 205]

Does knowing it came from Ecclesiastes imply some measure of being 'smarter' or 'better' than those that don't? Please don't drag the bible into an already bitter and antagonistic thread.

You are kidding right? I didn't "drag the bible into" anything.Having observed the thread from afar, my comment is every bit as valid as any of your own comments so why question the matter?

It may imply some measure of humility knowing we are nowhere near as "smart" as we think we are or should be...And what is wrong "dragging in" a measure of wisdom that far exceeds the measure of wisdom anyone of us has?Rob Osborne - BAW633

Thank you Rob.