Ok, I didn't have the time to read his whole prose.... :( This guy is out.

Ok, I didn't have the time to read his whole prose.... :Doh:This guy is out.

Ah, that's a shame...The seriously unhinged ones are amusing at times, you have to admit.

Have to say I really couldn't care less as to who did or didn't get what. Looking forward to the UK release perhaps by next yuletide....Bring it on Russ.

Ah, that's a shame...The seriously unhinged ones are amusing at times, you have to admit.

Well, the likes of him sure torpedoed the other thread. And he was trying hard to close this one down.Thanks David.

David,I think it's time! :(

Meanwhile, back on track...Given all the overnight back-and-forth, I just wanted to mention for the record that I didn't spend a cent on the prepay sale. So I could actually come out ahead by buying at the holiday sale. It's the principle of the thing that bothers me. Since my name is in my sig, JV can, if he wants, check my order history and see to what an extent I've been an ORBX supporter in the past. If my current reaction concerns him, fine. If not, equally fine.One other thought this morning - it strikes me that ORBX is by no means the first excellent developer to cross the line into hubris. Anybody remember Dreamfleet? Terrific products, great community. Then Lou slipped more and more into picking fights with the customers - "You've got complaints? Imagine how difficult/expensive it is to own a real airplane..." and so on. He eventually got tired of it all and closed up shop. And I guess if you wanted, you could accuse the ungrateful customers of driving him out of the business. But the more pertinent thing for me is, I don't think anybody misses Dreamfleet all that much. There was a time when they were the pinnacle of GA for FS, and we couldn't imagine doing without them. But over time, other developers came along and did better - A2A and Marcel Felde for example. Today, I don't give Dreamfleet a second thought. ORBX has made a huge positive difference in flightsim and I salute them for it. But sometimes I wonder where things'll be five years from now.Oh, as to thread closing? Why not? All viewpoints seem to have been aired. "Asked and answered."

² “Everything is meaningless,” says the Teacher, “completely meaningless!” ³ What do people get for all their hard work under the sun? ⁴ Generations come and generations go, but the earth never changes. ⁵ The sun rises and the sun sets, then hurries around to rise again. ⁶ The wind blows south, and then turns north. Around and around it goes, blowing in circles. ⁷ Rivers run into the sea, but the sea is never full. Then the water returns again to the rivers and flows out again to the sea. ⁸ Everything is wearisome beyond description. No matter how much we see, we are never satisfied. No matter how much we hear, we are not content. ⁹ History merely repeats itself. It has all been done before. Nothing under the sun is truly new. ¹⁰ Sometimes people say, “Here is something new!” But actually it is old; nothing is ever truly new. ¹¹ We don’t remember what happened in the past, and in future generations, no one will remember what we are doing now.

Aaah - but Brian - what we do now is what's important to us, our families and our friends. Whereas all those phrases you have quoted may well be true - they are not important to us, as those self-evident truths don't impact our lives in the same way that our relationships do. :(

I long ago decided not to EVER pay in advance for a pre-release of ANY product, no matter how much I may like the developer. Expectations are set, and when the release doesn't go exactly as promised or expected, the knives start to fly.I still remember the s***storm surrounding the botched prerelease of the CaptainSim 727 back in 2002. And then sometimes to add to the fun, the devs start taking aim at their own toes with statements like (my favorite) "we are ex Soviet military and know how to deal with traitors" hehe. And then we move on to the next sideshow.People will buy Orbx products in spite of this perceived slight, just as people will buy PMDG products even after their guy-what's-in-charge posted that anyone unhappy with the delays past the advertised release date could send their complaints to an unmonitored e-mail address. If you have a good, well-supported product at a fair price, the market will bless you with or without goodwill. But if you ever run into some headwinds...lean times or a rocky product release...that goodwill might come in handy.

Oh, as to thread closing? Why not? All viewpoints seem to have been aired. "Asked and answered."

Errr.... If that was to be, then surely, every single thread on Avsim should be closed?

Aaah - but Brian - what we do now is what's important to us, our families and our friends. Whereas all those phrases you have quoted may well be true - they are not important to us, as those self-evident truths don't impact our lives in the same way that our relationships do. :(

yes, true but my point was simply this, we can all rant and rave and feel cheated and be mad and whatever, but in the end it doesn't matter. Orbx will go on and so will we and we all decide whether we will buy something or not in the future. are we saying the same thing?

For me,everything is written.and i made my decision.Imagine,ORBX releases sceneries and 50% less customers will buy them???They are all waiting for a sale.That is the only way to show who has the last word.And now i will go back flying.Michael

I see now that several groupies that were up in arms today have now come back to the forum and of all things apologized for their outbursts.Obviously they cant live without JV and his antics.Unbelieveable. Don't these people have any sense of pride or self worth?I just don't get it. Stunned is an understatement.I suppose once a groupie always a groupie.

+1absolute no backbone..!

Now let me get this straight, Customer(s), lots of them, complain to company, company goes on the attack with a PR disaster statement (twice) , customer ends up apologizing?

I didn't plan to post something here, but well... it is VERY hard for me NOT to say what's on my mind... ^_^You are talking about 'several groupies', but it seems to me I am about the only one who apologized, so I must be one of them (or the only one).I just wanted to say here that you guys probably didn't read my post well and/or at least totally misinterpreted it. I only apologized for HOW I said what I said. My point of view on everything hasn't changed a single bit. I didn't say anything about buying their addons in the future, or visiting their forum, or liking the way they do what they do, did I...? How you came to the conclusion I am a Orbx groupie is beyond me.When I said I was glad with JV's 2012 post, I didn't say I agree with what Orbx is saying and doing...! I tried to be as neutral as possible (I didn't want to apologize another time), but I certainly didn't mean to come across as an Orbx groupie, because I am not. In fact (and maybe that makes it clear how I think about things) I think you owe ME an apology now for calling me that.So please don't read more in my post then I actually said. I posted what I did only for my own peace of mind, not to 'get back into the group' or something like that. You could say I posted what I did BECAUSE I DO have a 'sense of pride or self worth'. Hope you know what I mean by now.I think Orbx DID get the point of my post because they (up to now) didn't accept my apologies. Which says a lot. Again.P.S. Getting slapped in the face over there and being called an Orbx groupie over here... Feels like losing two homes in one day now.

Errr.... If that was to be, then surely, every single thread on Avsim should be closed?

Point taken!

I didn't plan to post something here, but well... it is VERY hard for me NOT to say what's on my mind... ^_^You are talking about 'several groupies', but it seems to me I am about the only one who apologized, so I must be one of them (or the only one).I just wanted to say here that you guys probably didn't read my post well and/or at least totally misinterpreted it. I only apologized for HOW I said what I said. My point of view on everything hasn't changed a single bit. I didn't say anything about buying their addons in the future, or visiting their forum, or liking the way they do what they do, did I...? How you came to the conclusion I am a Orbx groupie is beyond me.When I said I was glad with JV's 2012 post, I didn't say I agree with what Orbx is saying and doing...! I tried to be as neutral as possible (I didn't want to apologize another time), but I certainly didn't mean to come across as an Orbx groupie, because I am not. In fact (and maybe that makes it clear how I think about things) I think you owe ME an apology now for calling me that.So please don't read more in my post then I actually said. I posted what I did only for my own peace of mind, not to 'get back into the group' or something like that. You could say I posted what I did BECAUSE I DO have a 'sense of pride or self worth'. Hope you know what I mean by now.I think Orbx DID get the point of my post because they (up to now) didn't accept my apologies. Which says a lot. Again.P.S. Getting slapped in the face over there and being called an Orbx groupie over here... Feels like losing two homes in one day now.

JVEI had not read your post over at Orbx.After reading it, I see that you only apologized for HOW you made your comments, not the comments themselves. This I understand, as we can all say things in the wrong way in the heat of the moment.Mr Venema should take a leaf from your book.....................