Welcome Ron... I believe I understood where you were coming from (i.e. the phrasing of your question).-Rob

In the FWIW department, I have a few ORBX products - use them very little - but that's a personal judgement. I know some folks think they're the best thing since sliced bread but I don 't.Any business model that uses a prepay is doing one thing only - generating cash flow - period. JV may want to convince people he is being kind to the prepayers with a discount but the bottom line is he is using the funds. Not a bad business decision - just this particular implementation leaves a bad taste.As long as ORBX continues to impress users with their quality ( not me) they will enjoy a good business even in the face of their total lack of customer relations. However, should they falter in quality, theyve sown a whole lot of bad will that will jump up to bite them.I for one will not buy another product, mainly due to this attitude.Vic

Well spoken then and now Brian, Wondering how many here know the source? :(

In my neck of the woods we call it Koheleth - but other names are possible, too... B)And thanks for "dragging it in" - I for one can use all the wisdom I can get.

This whole saga reminds me of the "Cornish Plunderers" who used false lighthouse beacons to lure there unsuspecting cargo onto the rocks.Not only Orbyx suffer from bad PR, so does FSS. When Fs Commander 9.0 was released, I decided to purchase @ FSS Australia. After purchase, I realised my purchase was 8.6, not the latest. I sent off a ticket and requested the latest version, very politley, and stated that I thought what I was purchasing was the latest version, and thanked them very much for looking into it. That is when I got the cold shoulder, and the silence I got from Jaye and Adrian spoke volumes. The lack of Goodwill is their biggest downfall, as far as I am concerned, and as Orbyx and FSS are one and the same, one cannot expect much more, can one.Maybe they need to look at Flight 1, and FSDT, PMDG and HiFI as a good model, and JV might learn something.

In my neck of the woods we call it Koheleth - but other names are possible, too...And thanks for "dragging it in" - I for one can use all the wisdom I can get.

Thanks for the term as I learned a bit from having to do the lookup. :( I did not "drag it in" as some supposed but did comment in hopes that some would acknowledge the source and perhaps glean something from it. :(

Welcome Ron... I believe I understood where you were coming from (i.e. the phrasing of your question).-Rob

Indeed Rob, thanks again.

I note alans concillatory post over at ftx...and the 'you're walking a fine line' response from jv. Lolz. Watch what you post on avsim!I also reread jeroens post and must say was suprised by the orbx community beatdown.JV not backing down at all really, just saying 'im the boss and you may not like it but tough ....' i guess that's being honest. Perhaps we're just not used to 'straight shooting' like this these days.I guess what suprises me is the community response over there...it's 90% 'hurrah for orbx, and hang the traitors!'. Just seems a bit odd. You can like and support a product without having to behave like a cult member. Hmmmm.

I note alans concillatory post over at ftx...and the 'you're walking a fine line' response from jv. Lolz. Watch what you post on avsim!I also reread jeroens post and must say was suprised by the orbx community beatdown.JV not backing down at all really, just saying 'im the boss and you may not like it but tough ....' i guess that's being honest. Perhaps we're just not used to 'straight shooting' like this these days.I guess what suprises me is the community response over there...it's 90% 'hurrah for orbx, and hang the traitors!'. Just seems a bit odd. You can like and support a product without having to behave like a cult member. Hmmmm.

Folks, we have beaten this topic to death. I did participate here as well. I also PM'd JV with my view and opinions prior to seeing all this fuss over here. The PM response and response posts at Orbx are unsatisfactory to me. However, JV and company can do as they please and I respect that it is their business. What I am not is a happy camper. It will reflect in my purchases. I am not a groupie, I am not a traitor, I am not whatever who is on pro the sale side of this debate might think. But, rather, I am a retired professional, ex-business partner who used to run a business with 120 employees and did $10 million in annual bookings selling "people skills" which is a damn site harder than selling widgets (flightsim scenery). And am extremely knowledgeable in marketing and communications, I know when I experience poor practices and when I am impacted by poor practices.

I note alans concillatory post over at ftx...and the 'you're walking a fine line' response from jv. Lolz. Watch what you post on avsim!

Well, I'll admit I was less than thrilled with that response.Of course, trying to be fair about it, from JV's perspective, he doesn't know me from a hole in the ground and all of a sudden this guy is trashing him and offering unsolicited business advice. So there's not necessarily a reason for him to fall on his sword. Would I prefer to have been met closer to halfway? Sure. Do I equate bluntness with honesty and tact with mamby pamby weakness? No. That's my take. His mileage may (and probably does) vary.Another consideration It ocurrs to me that if you decide not to buy from Orbx because you don't like JV's style (and I can't say I do), you're also denying an income to the other developers who work there and who produce the bulk of the actual product. Not saying what the best course of action is. Just saying it's complicated being a moralist...Personally, I'll need to think a bit about the "you're walking a fine line" thing. It may matter to me enough to influence my buying, or it may not. Will have to see.

Folks, we have beaten this topic to death.

Yes.

JV and company can do as they please and I respect that it is their business.

Agree.I also would have liked to have seen things handled differently, but then, JV isn't necessarily the first "client" to disagree with my advice.It'll be what it'll be.

Thanks for the term as I learned a bit from having to do the lookup.

You're most welcome.In fairness, my Hebrew Bible titles the book "Ecclesiastes,", and uses "Koheleth" only in the text ("Utter futility! - said Koheleth - Utter futility! All is futile!") The word "Ecclesiastes" was introduced in the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible - the Septaguint - a while before the Christian Bible came about. So you're good with "Ecclesiastes" from any perspective.I also observe in the Zen tradition where it's said, among other things, that "The Great Way is not difficult if you do not pick and choose." :(

Can we stay on subject please before this thread gets locked.Bryan.

Looking at the sales banner plastered across Orbxs front page they have made the decision to call it a day on the sales front. This sale will apparently be the last everBryan.

Looking at the sales banner plastered across Orbxs front page they have made the decision to call it a day on the sales front. This sale will apparently be the last everBryan.

We will see.It does not say NEVER again. Just say not for a long time.. Now "long time" is very arbitrary as for one it can mean a month for others 5 years... i am willing to sit it out and wait and see. I for one will never buy at full price again.. Have not done it for quite some time and still maanged to get all I want at sales that popped up now and again.Well at least I have so much I can stay away for very long period of time, indefinate if need be.. So I am willing to sit it out and see for myself. So far it did me good not jumping out anymore to be one of the first purchasers of their products anymore.FS flight is around the corner anyway.. I have always been an early adopter so it is not that I am anyway going to stay with FSX for that long..

But yeah I also think they decided they will be able to manage the small revolution... in a month or two all is forgotten and most will buy again from ORBX and in the mean time they laugh all the way to the bank after milking those "trusting" customers.. and I am sure it will continue to happen in future. Its surely not the first time and surely it is not going to be the last time. it all depends if you going to be a sucker again or if you going to learn a lesson from this. "Business can be a rude place when mammon become your god."So yes ORBX customers have been MILKED big time and ORBX know it well. This was a very well planned and calculated business decision that was taken.

Ahh and I see they have done very well to manage the little uprising.. Everything is calming down nicely and in another day or two all is forgotton and it is back to business as usual. Their calculated business decision to milk their customers, that was taken, seem to come to good in short term though and it is all over in actually record time....(dont know about the long term though when they might rely on that "goodwill" that seem to be not part of their "calculated" business decision)

JV has a history of cutting his nose of to spite his face. I cant remember all the detail now but there was some hoohah a few years back on pricing and JV reactions was right thats it, I am immediately raising the prices on all FTX products to a more realistic level blah blah blah.We have been here before, but it wasn't long before prices dropped back.Bryan.