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Super Six-Four

I just read Tom's blog...

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and I would strongly suggest it's worth the read. Very well stated, and I'm willing to bet right on the money. I think there's a lot riding on Flight, so to dismiss it so early in the game is very short-sighted IMHO.Cheers,Todd

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Interesting read. time will tell where this ultimately goes, however, I for one think MS will want to attract new flight simmers and cater to the hard core as well. I have yet to find a reason why the would not want to cater to both or why they could not cater to both...lets hope I am right!

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Tom's article here.Great read, offering additional insight (Thanks for sharing!).To me the last paragraph stands out:

In the meetings with Microsoft in December, the question of FSX's future was asked.. I can't remember the details of the answer, but I can sum it up by saying that MS has NOT SAID they are abandoning the product or ruling out a future successor. You can interpret that, anyway that you wish.
So if perhaps MS is sitting on the fence regarding FSXI, maybe "making some noise" might bear its fruits.Technically this makes a lot of sense, as Flight and FSXI would share the aircraft simulation and scenery rendering codebases, while the gaming and serious simming aspects would remain separate and out of each other's way.So we could have Flight for the masses and FSXI for the hard-core bunch, plus of course any Flight simmers wanting to progress into "serious simming" would have a path to do so.An intermediate solution, with the result only known when the product(s) are released. Schrödinger would be proud!Cheers,- jahman.

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so to dismiss it so early in the game is very short-sighted IMHO.
I don't think anyone is dismissing Microsoft Flight, just showing more or less disappointment in the marketing. Thanks for bringing the blog to my attention. I'm a big fan of Tom's....Best regards,Jim

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Good read indeed. As much as I may be one of the ones running around with their hair on fire, my concern with FLIGHT is MS' sincerity and ability to produce the quality and selection of add-ons that the communuty desires. Are they motivated and are they going to take the time to create the airports and scenery utilities we have come to enjoy? I have this feeling that MS is seeing things in pink........I don't think they are in touch with or have a reliastic understanding of how involved, complex and varied add-ons are. Or maybe they do. Again, I have a hard time belieiving MS will be capable of organiizing the manpower and talent to produce what we have seen from at least a half doxen big name 3PDs. It's my impression that it takes not only a lot of time, resources and motivation, but a sharp ear for what people really want in an add-on. I think outfits like Orbx, Wilco, Flytampa listened to and sensed what the community was looking for in terms of the product and quality. How good has MS been at that as of late? I'd honestly like to believe that MS has a crew over there ready to roll up their sleeves and start coding an entire fleet of AI aircraft, repaints, flightplans, an FSUIPC alternative, replacement textures for everything from the ground to the clouds, that they would be opening up the Boeing and Airbus manuals to give us a Project Magenta or a Prosim737 replacement, specific aircraft sounds sets, specific runway/aircraft replacement lights, specifc replacements for the flight models, and the list goes on. That is the beauty of an SDK, being able to spread the realistic workload of such a vast selection of resources to everyone, and everyone involved has produced tons of them. I just don't see MS being able to replicate the caliber or selection unless they are so darn serious about Flight SImulator and we just don't klnow it.

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That is the beauty of an SDK, being able to spread the realistic workload of such a vast selection of resources to everyone, and everyone involved has produced tons of them. I just don't see MS being able to replicate the caliber or selection unless they are so darn serious about Flight SImulator and we just don't klnow it.
What else are you going to do if you are a 3rd party dev? You have 4 options FSX, Flight, XP10, P3D... Either 3rd party wither up and die or they move on from FSX... Do you think PMDG goes bankrupt before they give in to MS's demands, or learns a whole new system in XP?

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Microsoft is giving Flight away with the hope that they'll make significant profits on every additional plane, every airport, every scenery area, every ATC feature, every aircraft repaint and every other little feature that together may someday approach the feature set of FS9 or FSX.But if the first few add-ons don't sell well, I'd expect this "add-on" market to be abandoned within a year.So is there a big enough market out there to make Flight add-ons profitable??There's two potential markets 1. The long-term flight sim fan who's built up their libraries over the years. I'm betting most are not going to pay a lot of money to start over with Flight with no guarantee that this product will ever mature to the level of existing features that we have in FS9/FSX.2. The new guy getting into Flight only because it's free. It's a big question how many of these will get past the "free" mindset to purchase add-ons, and how many will just get bored flying the GA aircraft around Hawaii and just set Flight aside while they go back to Warcraft.A company the size of Microsoft must be looking at sales goals of millions of add-ons to consider Flight a success. Keep in mind every add-on has to be priced high enough to create profit for Microsoft to cover the expenses of creating Flight, cover the cost of running the "store", and enough money left over to pay the creator of the add-on for their time and effort in creating the add-on. In other words, they will be expensive compared to price of current add-ons. I'm just don't see sales numbers high enough in the first year for there to be a second year of Flight add-ons.

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What else are you going to do if you are a 3rd party dev? You have 4 options FSX, Flight, XP10, P3D... Either 3rd party wither up and die or they move on from FSX... Do you think PMDG goes bankrupt before they give in to MS's demands, or learns a whole new system in XP?
What else are you going to do if you are a 3rd party dev? You have 4 options FSX, Flight, XP10, P3D... Either 3rd party wither up and die or they move on from FSX... Do you think PMDG goes bankrupt before they give in to MS's demands, or learns a whole new system in XP?
I'm not really sure what the future holds for companies like PMDG.........considering that FLIGHT does not appear to be that many steps above FSX, I think compaines like PMDG do have a few years left of profitable business working with FSX........and they may be able to hold the fort longer by pumping out key software at an opportune time. If I had to bet my money, I'd say 3PD's future is pretty secure with FSX for at least another 3-5 years.

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A very enjoyable and informative read.Thanks for sharing Tom.Fred.

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You guys are looking at this the wrong way, why do you think 3PD were in with Flight....because they had nothing better to do...or because they knew about how much exposure they will get selling their addons in the market store = more $$$....I'll take the 2nd choice.Now, if the 3PD were to increased their sales MS was the solution, who of the regular Joe after buying FSX was looking for addons? I myself at first had to search the web. to find a way to make my sim. run better and from there I found addons developers, this time the search will not be that hard for the new kids on the block, everything will be exposed to them, so how big do you think this market is...big enough to have the big fish in.MS did not close the door to 3PD (the one we know) for no good reasons, trust me, there is always two side to a sory and we have not heard MS's side....if I was MS I'll be pi$$ed at who ever released any info on what took place between them and 3PD....not good for redemtion if you ask me, I'll be welling to bet that some of them burned their bridges, but guess what, like I said earlier, if there is a demand for addons somebody will show up and make them, Orbx, PMG and others do have very good addons, how did they get there, as my father always said...nobody is irreplaceable, and please don't tell me that without Orbx, PMG or who ever it can be your simmers life is over.....pffff...even the great Muhammed Ali lost his crown, his time was up.

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But if the first few add-ons don't sell well, I'd expect this "add-on" market to be abandoned within a year.
I think you are completely on the mark with this assessment. Microsoft is NOTORIOUS for jumping ship when things don't go their way quickly.

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Microsoft is NOTORIOUS for jumping ship when things don't go their way quickly.
Not at all!Microsoft is notorious for sticking through with what it believes in. The first useable version of Windows was v. 3.1 I can tell you, I had v. 1, 2 and 3.0), Word 1.0 for Windows was hell, ditto for 32-bit Windows NT until v. 3.51, etc. etc. And Windows Phone, after a decade of dilly-dallying has been the talk at CES 2102.Cheers,- jahman.

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Reads like damage control.
And how would that be?
Tom,Please recognize his comment for what he is and what he wants. He's an X-Plane ######. Wants to see anything MS related vanish off the earth, so that the masses will flock to X-Plane and place buildings at 30,000 empty airports. They whine and cry if someone wanders itnto their little corner of the site and says ANYTHING they feel is a sleight to XPX. Yet this poster and other X-Plane ###### will wander over here and make their snarky little comments.At this point in time, my impression is that they are worried that Flight may not be the arcade game they hope it is. Because if that happens X-Plane goes back to being the same old X-Plane.

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Tom,Please recognize his comment for what he is and what he wants. He's an X-Plane ######. Wants to see anything MS related vanish off the earth, so that the masses will flock to X-Plane and place buildings at 30,000 empty airports. They whine and cry if someone wanders itnto their little corner of the site and says ANYTHING they feel is a sleight to XPX. Yet this poster and other X-Plane ###### will wander over here and make their snarky little comments.At this point in time, my impression is that they are worried that Flight may not be the arcade game they hope it is. Because if that happens X-Plane goes back to being the same old X-Plane.
I totally agree with you.There will be a lot of red faces when Flight comes out.Fred.

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Tom,Please recognize his comment for what he is and what he wants. He's an X-Plane ######. Wants to see anything MS related vanish off the earth, so that the masses will flock to X-Plane and place buildings at 30,000 empty airports. They whine and cry if someone wanders itnto their little corner of the site and says ANYTHING they feel is a sleight to XPX. Yet this poster and other X-Plane ###### will wander over here and make their snarky little comments.At this point in time, my impression is that they are worried that Flight may not be the arcade game they hope it is. Because if that happens X-Plane goes back to being the same old X-Plane.
Thats the most childish post I've read for quite a while. It also happens to be a load of BS, merely reflecting your own bias and opinions.

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I think Mountain Man enjoys stirring things up in the forums. I'm only been posting for few weeks and already been attacked by him.Anyway no need to get off topic.I appreciate the blog entry from Tom and hope something good comes from Flight.

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Interesting read. time will tell where this ultimately goes, however, I for one think MS will want to attract new flight simmers and cater to the hard core as well. I have yet to find a reason why the would not want to cater to both or why they could not cater to both...lets hope I am right!
I am new to Flight sims & want to learn how to fly a plane & all the navagtion ect that goes with it & to make it a real as possable.To me Flight is just what I have been looking for I only need one island to start with same as a new real life new pilot.In real life as a pilot you don't just jump into a 757 & start to fly around the world you start in a small plane & do short flights as you get better you move up to a bigger less basic plane ect & do longer flights.With Flight you start with one island & two basic planes to learn the basics of flight, then as you get better you buy new DLC that you like the look of & that suits the way you want to learn & what you want to learn. You chose your own path.As a new player to Flight sims you & Flight grow at the same pace as the world in Flight grows you get to reach out & use your new learnt skills to fly bigger planes to fly to the new lands.The Icon looks basic & like a car inside but as a new player I still need to learn how to fly it the right way.For the hardcore simmers Flight is not going to be for them on the day of release & I would think it will not be for them for a min of 3 years but they still have FSX .Flight is for a new generation of flight simmers. Like myself. Thats why I posted the thread 'Is the addon niche market about to boom?'re:
Reads like damage control.
There is a name for posters that make little post's like this.Even images to post up to show you what they are called.
However I'm a beta tester and got bored about a week into it.
You do understand that what you are testing is a boring repetitive beta test to find bugs & you are not playing a demo of the finshed game of Flight?

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You do understand that what you are testing is a boring repetitive beta test to find bugs & you are not playing a demo of the finshed game of Flight?
We already know that the game shown at CES is the initial download of Flight. One plane, one island some missions. Log into Live and get another plane and presumably some missions that go with this plane. Get your wallet out for anything else, such as Oahu and the other 3 planes that we have seen in promos.People keep trying to give the impression that the beta testers who are underwhelmed are not being shown the whole product. If some people have been given a peek of some DLC, it changes nothing. People will make their decision about buying DLC based on what they see in the free base product and that seems rather underwhelming so far.

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We already know that the game shown at CES is the initial download of Flight. One plane, one island some missions. Log into Live and get another plane and presumably some missions that go with this plane. Get your wallet out for anything else, such as Oahu and the other 3 planes that we have seen in promos.People keep trying to give the impression that the beta testers who are underwhelmed are not being shown the whole product. If some people have been given a peek of some DLC, it changes nothing. People will make their decision about buying DLC based on what they see in the free base product and that seems rather underwhelming so far.
So was the game of flight shown at the CES the finshed product?If so why are we not all downloading it now?The problem is the beta testers can not post want it is like what they do like & what they don't like.There have been some leaks but what a suprise the leaks are from the beta testers that don't want us to like flight who have nothing good to say about it.Otherwise how did you come to this
impression that the beta testers who are underwhelmed
Below is a quote From Tom's blog
My point here is that the flight charateristics of the Stearman are significantly more realistic than the assessment that it is a game and aircraft dynamics and characteristics are modeled for that less demanding audience. If the Stearman is an example of the detailed flight models to come, then the picture is much prettier than some vocal community opinions would concede.
The beta testers that do like flight are the one's that can respect the NDA unlike 'Whatever Dude' who can't but help themselfs but to tell you what they think of it.You can only see one side of the story as the other side can't tell you a word due to NDA.And don't forget this forum is going to be very onesided what's the % of hardcore simmers reading & even posting here?I know someone like me & even posting is very rare as I am not a hardcore simmer I am a new guy wanting to get into simming.But I am learning alot about the hardcore simming community.I think Tom's closing lines of his blog sums it up.
There has been thousands of posts, or it seems like it, bewailing the demise of FSX and any successors that might appear. Of course that is not based on any real "fact" or "direct" knowledge of the subject. Nashing of teeth and arm waving are in my opinion, wasted energy at this point in the story of the Flight Simulation genre'. For those of you who are nashing your teeth, running around with your hair on fire and quickly damaging your shoulders, I have news for you...In the meetings with Microsoft in December, the question of FSX's future was asked.. I can't remember the details of the answer, but I can sum it up by saying that MS has NOT SAID they are abandoning the product or ruling out a future successor. You can interpret that, anyway that you wish.

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And Windows Phone, after a decade of dilly-dallying has been the talk at CES 2102.
Are you a beta tester for Windows TARDIS?

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So was the game of flight shown at the CES the finshed product?If so why are we not all downloading it now?
By all indications, it is feature complete and content complete. So, in my opinion it is indeed what you will be downloading for free in a few months.You are not downloading it yet, because people with various kinds of hardware need to test it for compatibility. Missions need to be tuned for difficulty and fixing bugs. Manuals need to be finalized and prices need to be set. Servers need to be set up, but you get the picture.What is not going on is the addition of features that have not already been planned, designed, implemented and tested in-house months ago.

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Lol, sorry but this is really amusing. MS sacked a talented team who created a great product for Flight Simulator enthusiasts. What they have scrambled together with "Flight" is a nasty arcade game. Just like the disaster that is the Windows product line, MS are loosing market share left right and centre and become less relevant in the personal computer / software space.

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