I remember going to a nice restaurant all the time (expensive one), according to me (and others) the food was the best, one day I asked a question to the waiter about the restaurant, he could not answer me so he sent the owner to my table, the owner knew me for been one of his good customer, that day he came to my table to answer my question, the threatment I received from him left a very bad taste in my mouth......the staff was the best, they always had a smile on their faces.I left the restaurant and never returned, do I miss their food....I did for about 30 secondsFor me and for me only, buying more Orbx products will be like a boxer without arms, all mouth, nothing else. How do you say it here....all blow no go??Again, this is for me only.

The best scenery , maybe, but take a look at this thread over at A2A ...looks pretty good to me . A bit more developement from these guys and who knows ...http://www.a2asimula...hp?f=23&t=28785Cheers alan2

That is some impressive scenery.

The best scenery , maybe, but take a look at this thread over at A2A ...looks pretty good to me . A bit more developement from these guys and who knows ...http://www.a2asimula...hp?f=23&t=28785

Proof, as if it were needed, that nothing stands still in our hobby. France VFR have clearly been looking at what Orbx and other developers like Earth Simulations (Treescapes etc.) have been up to and come up with what looks like an interesting new hybrid.It strikes me that this is the kind of approach that is going to work best in densely populated areas. I still cannot see how the Orbx landclass style is going to be totally effective for their UK scenery, especially given the amount of photo scenery already available. Those of us with intimate knowledge of the UK are going to be very critical of any generic areas, but admittedly that's only a modest section of the potential customer base.

Is there something wrong with me? I buy their products because I like it and I feel it is value for money, if I hav a problem with it they support me and fix it. What they do with their pricing and sales policy is their business. I spend 95% of my fsx time flying and 5% on related forums. I think many people with mega posts counts have it the opposite way round! Voicing negative opinions on forums is asking for trouble. If your banned, what do you actually lose? Not the ability to use and enjoy their product.

Indeed I totally agree with that. At some point in the past the OrbX forums were turning a bit into another AVSIM like forum, with many topics about everything FSX related, a lot of hardware and OC discussions etc. Maybe some of you had wrong expectations about what the OrbX forums were, and maybe it led OrbX to take a more drastic approach to regulating their forums. That's only an hypothesis though. I must say that I prefer the OrbX forums the way they are now, I can just pop in and find news, previews and support info much better...Anyway, all this indignation about the OrbX forums sounds way over the top to me, but that's just my 2 cents...

I remember going to a nice restaurant all the time (expensive one), according to me (and others) the food was the best, one day I asked a question to the waiter about the restaurant, he could not answer me so he sent the owner to my table, the owner knew me for been one of his good customer, that day he came to my table to answer my question, the threatment I received from him left a very bad taste in my mouth......the staff was the best, they always had a smile on their faces.I left the restaurant and never returned, do I miss their food....I did for about 30 secondsFor me and for me only, buying more Orbx products will be like a boxer without arms, all mouth, nothing else. How do you say it here....all blow no go??Again, this is for me only.That is some impressive scenery.

Come on Alain! There are plenty of fine restaurants out there. Even France VFR needs a larger coverage area, night scenery, and the price is NOT nearly as affordable as some of ORBX regions.If you're NOT happy with the ORBX scenery, that's understandable, but if you're just looking to show who the real boss is, then I think you'll miss out on some great add-ons like North California.

@ ptisinge......its the loss of a of a once great community . Going back a couple of years it was great and a few laughs to boot . Always worth popping in and talking about whats new or the latest tweek etc with other enthusiasts . Why destroy it ? (assume commercial reasons but it makes no sense to me)People first. Hellfire, about people with mega posts.....some peoples hobby is just taking screenshots, others developing and some just flying ..whatever turns you on in this HOBBY . High post counts is inevitable if you have been have been visiting for years and involved with one or more aspects of this hobby.alan2

The best scenery , maybe, but take a look at this thread over at A2A ...looks pretty good to me . A bit more developement from these guys and who knows ...http://www.a2asimula...hp?f=23&t=28785Cheers alan2

Hi Alan :)That looks amazing.

@ ptisinge......its the loss of a of a once great community . Going back a couple of years it was great and a few laughs to boot . Always worth popping in and talking about whats new or the latest tweek etc with other enthusiasts . Why destroy it ? (assume commercial reasons but it makes no sense to me)People first.Hellfire, about people with mega posts.....some peoples hobby is just taking screenshots, others developing and some just flying ..whatever turns you on in this HOBBY . High post counts is inevitable if you have been have been visiting for years and involved with one or more aspects of this hobby.alan2

+1

Come on Alain! There are plenty of fine restaurants out there. Even France VFR needs a larger coverage area, night scenery, and the price is NOT nearly as affordable as some of ORBX regions.If you're NOT happy with the ORBX scenery, that's understandable, but if you're just looking to show who the real boss is, then I think you'll miss out on some great add-ons like North California.

José old friend, I think you missed my point, of course I still got out for dinner in nice restaurants, I did not stop, I just don't spend my money where I'm not welcome.First time I heard about Even France VFR was yesterday so I don't know how much it cost.I AM happy with the Orbx scenery I have (and I have a lot), I'm not looking to show who's the boss, I'm the boss in my company and (what's is name again??) is the boss in his company but trust me on this one, I'm not the type of man who will >mod removed non family friendly Icon< and you know what just because I'm told to or I may be missing on good food or scenery....naaaaaaaa.To each is own and I will always respect your or others point of view on this matter but I always put my money where my mouth is....Again, that is for me only.

Indeed I totally agree with that. At some point in the past the OrbX forums were turning a bit into another AVSIM like forum, with many topics about everything FSX related, a lot of hardware and OC discussions etc. Maybe some of you had wrong expectations about what the OrbX forums were, and maybe it led OrbX to take a more drastic approach to regulating their forums. That's only an hypothesis though. I must say that I prefer the OrbX forums the way they are now, I can just pop in and find news, previews and support info much better...Anyway, all this indignation about the OrbX forums sounds way over the top to me, but that's just my 2 cents...

Funny, how did we have the wrong expectations about what Orbx forum was.....we did not (customers) put the hardware forums or the chat rooms or the screenshots part up and running ourself?....Orbx did and they have the right to take it down if they want to, I think your missing the point here.....I can't speak for others but for me it's the way I was threated overthere NOT about what they want to do with their forums......

I'm not a big guy in the sim world, even smaller in the OrbX world. I bought in a couple of years ago and now fly exclusively the PNW and NRM areas.. nowhere else, and I was going to get the UK stuff and also the rest of the west coast USA as it was released, but I'm with Alain on this one, guys: his analogy is perfect, and though I never had a run-in personally with "'is nibs", I've been "discomfitted' by a number of his comments and roughish treatment of others in many posts - all the way back to that first 'piracy ' announcement. I'm also one of the guys who "'is nibs" has p***** off over the pre-christmas sale, compounded with the rest of the hullaballoo. Since Christmas I've also talked personally with a number of respected, long-time simmers who've been on the sharp end of some nasty emails, and whose opinions I value.Now when buying regular 'around the house' stuff I don't care if the store owner even acknowledges me - but owning a retail (R/C) hobby store for twenty-five years has taught me that you don't ever p*** of a good customer, you stay 'friends' - open, straight and moderately warm. No politics: no religion. There was a time when I thought I'd never stop r/w flying... there was a time when I never thought I'd stop playing competitive chess - ten years: likewise flying R/C -thirty-five years: I've also been flight-simming since 1986 (on an XP with an amber monitor!). Sometime I guess I will stop doing that too!What I'm saying is, hobbies - of any kind - are transient, completely self indulgent, and are little rewards we give ourselves.Spending money is part of that 'feel-good', 'self indulgency', too, and going along with that 'warm and fuzzy' feeling, is some need to 'like' the other guy, especially if I'm going to give him my money.I won't be giving up simming any time soon, but I'm darned if I give OrbX one more penny.2 small cents...

I'm not a big guy in the sim world, even smaller in the OrbX world. I bought in a couple of years ago and now fly exclusively the PNW and NRM areas.. nowhere else, and I was going to get the UK stuff and also the rest of the west coast USA as it was released, but I'm with Alain on this one, guys: his analogy is perfect, and though I never had a run-in personally with "'is nibs", I've been "discomfitted' by a number of his comments and roughish treatment of others in many posts - all the way back to that first 'piracy ' announcement. I'm also one of the guys who "'is nibs" has p***** off over the pre-christmas sale, compounded with the rest of the hullaballoo. Since Christmas I've also talked personally with a number of respected, long-time simmers who've been on the sharp end of some nasty emails, and whose opinions I value.Now when buying regular 'around the house' stuff I don't care if the store owner even acknowledges me - but owning a retail (R/C) hobby store for twenty-five years has taught me that you don't ever p*** of a good customer, you stay 'friends' - open, straight and moderately warm. No politics: no religion. There was a time when I thought I'd never stop r/w flying... there was a time when I never thought I'd stop playing competitive chess - ten years: likewise flying R/C -thirty-five years: I've also been flight-simming since 1986 (on an XP with an amber monitor!). Sometime I guess I will stop doing that too!What I'm saying is, hobbies - of any kind - are transient, completely self indulgent, and are little rewards we give ourselves.Spending money is part of that 'feel-good', 'self indulgency', too, and going along with that 'warm and fuzzy' feeling, is some need to 'like' the other guy, especially if I'm going to give him my money.I won't be giving up simming any time soon, but I'm darned if I give OrbX one more penny.2 small cents...

+100A couple of points I would like to add to your post PJ, is the method they used to build up the Orbx customer base, create a forum, make it so it gives everyone the warm fuzzies, then once mission accomplished, sanitize the forum, kick out those who may question there integrity,If you go back in history, the Cornish Plunderers used false lighthouse beacons to lure there unsuspecting cargo onto the rocks, since the pre-pay rip off of December, I have come to the conclusion that Orbx are our modern day "Cornish Bandits"

There is one single adage that I keep thinking of... 'in life, treat people how you would want to be treated yourself'

Exactly. There's another one like that, Howard; it's called "Never bite the hand that feeds you".(Er.. wot's a single adage?... is there a twin adage, too?)

Hi Howard, Paul, my grandmothers version was "Do as you'd be done by"!BTW looks like we'll have some new members soon as someone suggested ORBX "put up or shut up" on the "Large International Airports" thread this morning. :LMAO:I have to say I'm totally with Ron on this though. Why cut of your nose to spite your face? Anyone who's worked as an employee or contractor for an organisation will have encountered policy decisons from that organisation that they either totally disagree with or think unwise. If you're contracted to work for them you have to bite your lip, protest (usually to deaf ears) or leave. The latter in the current economic climate is hardly an option for most?Lets not loose sight of the fact there are many individual developers working under the one publisher here. Indeed "the subject of our displeasure" announced that he was visiting the UK to talk to developers for the UK scenery. Now these aren't going to come from "the job centre" are they? probably folk who're already involved in UK scenery projects already and releasing stuff under another label? As to how well the FTX style will cope with the UK's dense urbanisation with many familiar landmarks in a small area only time will tell? Whether that is achievable at reasonable performance for the Sim is also an issue? My concern is that a compromise on detail to maintain performance may result in a less succesful series? Certainly for you PMDG jet jocks the photoreal sceneries look pretty good already but for UK GA (we don't have bush pilots because we don't have "bush" :( and thanks to WWII our little island is "littered with old airfields) they're not so good at 1000' ......even with trees added? The standard Autogen for the UK in FSX is just rubbish. Deserted areas are covered with buildings and the inevitable roads running into the sea or rivers and some urban areas seem more like villages.VFR France is a very interesting project but their rather peculiar marketing decision makes it very expensive! Instead of covering geographic areas they chose to do France by it's Administrative Regions!?! :( That means that even to cover the French side of the English Channel you'd need to buy FIVE regions! If you want to go to Paris, an easy jaunt for a GA Twin, you'll need to add more dependant on your inbound route. Prices vary by region but when you start adding them up it makes FTX Areas look fantastic value for money. I've certainly considered investing in the Channel regions as it compliments Earth Simulations Alderney and Guernsey sceneries.Geoff

Hi Howard, Paul, my grandmothers version was "Do as you'd be done by"!BTW looks like we'll have some new members soon as someone suggested ORBX "put up or shut up" on the "Large International Airports" thread this morning. :LMAO:I have to say I'm totally with Ron on this though. Why cut of your nose to spite your face? Anyone who's worked as an employee or contractor for an organisation will have encountered policy decisons from that organisation that they either totally disagree with or think unwise. If you're contracted to work for them you have to bite your lip, protest (usually to deaf ears) or leave. The latter in the current economic climate is hardly an option for most?Geoff

Hi Geoff,I think you missed the point here, it's not about what Orbx is doing with their site, far from it, they can do what ever they want with it, the point was and is still the way they have treated their customers (Christmas sale just to take this one), if their developers like to work for Orbx or not it's up to them to leave or stay, what does that have to do with us customers?? Let me give you a good example about how I feel......it remind me of a battered woman (some Orbx customers) complaning about her husband or boyfriend (Orbx) abusing her but at the same time defending him and staying with him because he's good with the childrens (scenery).....HELLO...... :( The view express in this post are mine and mine only and are not and do not reflect the view of Avsim or their affiliated...... :(

Hi Geoff,I think you missed the point here, it's not about what Orbx is doing with their site, far from it, they can do what ever they want with it, the point was and is still the way they have treated their customers (Christmas sale just to take this one), if their developers like to work for Orbx or not it's up to them to leave or stay, what does that have to do with us customers??

I have never had a run-in with Orbx. Quite frankly I saw the "writing on the wall" with their stance on a few issues and avoided it by never getting involved in posts over there - "you never know when you might need the support", I reasoned. But it is the treatment of others that I do find so disturbing, not least because of the pretty big financial and emotional investment that many, myself included, have made in that great software, only to be treated with utter disrespect and arrogance - there's no other way to describe it - and then presumably left high and dry when it comes to support, which they are always pointing out is only available to bona fide forum members.I still don't know if I now feel comfortable supporting a company that operates in such a reprehensible manner towards any of its customers. I ask myself what would happen if I ever complained to them about anything?Whereas I agree with the sentiments about the developers unfairly suffering out of all of this, through no fault of their own, one has to at least query the wisdom of some of our hobby's leading scenery mavens still attaching their colours to the Orbx mast, when all this shenanigans has been going on. They must surely be aware of it! Perhaps they are bound by long term contracts?In the end, whether one continues with one's patronage is an entirely personal issue. Had I been the one to have been unreasonably treated and thrown out of the forums etc., I would have no decision to make, they'd lose me forever. But as Ron said, there is an element of cutting off your nose to spite your face in all this. It's an individual choice.

the point was and is still the way they have treated their customers (Christmas sale just to take this one), if their developers like to work for Orbx or not it's up to them to leave or stay, what does that have to do with us customers??Let me give you a good example about how I feel......it remind me of a battered woman (some Orbx customers) complaning about her husband or boyfriend (Orbx) abusing her but at the same time defending him and staying with him because he's good with the childrens (scenery).....HELLO......

Hi Alain,I have to say I've always been reluctant to prepay for ANYTHING. Having said that I did so at Christmas and totally agree that this was handled in a rude and ridiculous manner. Most folk when they "blow it" come clean, man up, apologise and try and make amends .....not insult the intelligence and integrity of the customer. HOWEVER...... lets talk about cars :( ....just to keep it theoretical :( if you get my meaning. Say you like Fords? Say Fords make excellent cars of the type you need? When you got to the local dealer to buy a new model he screws you over on the deal? It doesn't make the Ford bad does it? It makes the dealer an idiot! It makes him an idiot because hey GM make cars too ( :( I know they aren't flavour of the month in the US but their European models are good) .....so sure you can buy a GM instead and probably get a good deal because the Ford dealer's getting a bad reputation? If on the other hand you like the Ford best you'll just get it elsewhere surely? As has been stated here FSS, where I've bought my ORBX add-ons (as well as other publishers stuff) claim to have no influence over ORBX and even if they did other dealers sell the product.In other words great product, generally speaking ....and now we can speak freely without criticism being deleted, SHAME about the "dealership"(publisher)?BTW one of the UK suppliers are selling ORBX stuff at discount at the moment so the huff and puff about no further sales is just more silliness.I too was very annoyed at the additional 15% given immediately on release and for those who lashed out on all the titles it was a massive rip off but that just means I'll only buy stuff that's well reviewed or on sale from now on.The advantage of this forum is that we can post comparative shots between different publishers, we can discuss problems, weaknesses, compatability, faults and tweaks without rudeness or censorship. Don't let the bad apple rot the barrel? No one's ego is going to spoil my hobby.geoff