DillonI don't seem to have a problem getting to Ariane's web site. And afterwards I always run a full spyware scan LOL.David

>Say thanks to Pete Dowson.>Payware developers just trying stay away from FSUIPC at all.Say thanks to Peter Dowson for still letting the whole community access in some form or another to the deepest parts of FS.Maybe you don't know that for freeware developers FSUIPC use is free?Just get in touch with Peter, show your module/gauge/soft and he will provide you with an access key. For free!And besides many producers, including but not limited to, our beloved (no joke intended) PMDG pay fees to Peter to use his module in their commercial products.So say it is commercial decisions behind all this, not that's Peter's fault.Regards

Yes - Why not having both packages? I have the PMDG (not the 8/900 yet) and consider also buying the Ariane.IMHO it is not a question of haveing just one or the other, but for many here in the forum it seems it is kind of a religion having either this or that 7373NG.Wolfgang

Anthony, So why do you think PMDG did not develope the IRS into the NG yet? Silly or not there were MANY reasons the IRS was not modelled and one reason was what I wrote because it's one that I know as fact,if you don't except it fine. Your comment "SO WHAT? PMDG isn't making the NG for Real pilots.......that's not who their customers are.[/b]" is also "silly", PMDG make aircraft simulations geared towards REALISM, customer input is always welcome but if 100% of them want an unrealistic fuzzy dice in the cockpit trust me you won't see unrealistic things just because of a majority over realism, plian and simple. Do you have any idea how many ITEMS put into the NG were not even FOUND by the majority of users but PMDG chose in their strive for perfection to implement anyway? How many times have I been asked, "Why does the second A/P not engage on ILS when I push it?" Why? Simply because it ONLY engages under 1500 RA! How many average guys really cared? I DID. What about when one does not set the MCP COURSE window to the FMC programed approach course on approach phase? Don't set it and you get a CDU message just like the real FMC, in fact I can recall at least ten folks complaing that there HAD to be something amiss with these two items alone! Why is it that there is not ONE comment about the depths gone by PMDG in matters such as these from you Anthony, only what is NOT there eh? Trust me I can give 100s of examples that I have personally whined, begged and b@tched about to get into the NG that YOU probably don't even know is there. So please don't tell me what PMDG do or don't do because you have no idea. Best Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4][h3]P M D G's 747-400[/h3][h4]coming to a runway near you[/h4][/font color]Caution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)AMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | Maxtor 6Y080M0 SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 | Windows Xp Pro | Windows Xp Pro 64 |

>IMHO it is not a question of haveing just one or the other,>but for many here in the forum it seems it is kind of a>religion having either this or that 7373NG.I don't think it has anything to do with religion but with daily practicality. If I am on a market for a TV I will pick one I like most and stick with it. I am not going to buy two TVs, just in case I am not sure which one I like better, etc. It is perfectly understandable that considering expense simmers want to find out which of two packages is more suitable for them rather than buying two of what essentially are same products.Michael J.http://www.reality-xp.com/community/nr/rsc/rxp-higher.jpg

Dillon,I wouldn't be surprised if we see something like this on Ariane's website in the next month or two:Get the NG--now it's only 39 pounds, but for that price you get a 49 pound value! And for this price, we'll throw in not just one, but TWO liveries for double the value :) IOTW, set the price artificially high, then cut it to make people "perceive" the higher value. Given that a read of the prose on Ariane's site is just like a listen to an infomercial, I wouldn't be surprised if we see something like this, since it's done all the time in infomercials...That said, my only concern with reviews is the sincerity of them, pro or con, given this topic is less about quality and more of whether one likes or dislikes Ariane or PMDG. If someone has 100+ to throw at an add-on, then calls himself a sucker, despite all the dialog about this package, I can't help but wonder if such a review is a setup. I can't imagine anyone willing to commit themselves as a sacrificial lamb for the good of the community with $100 out of pocket.In the end, I don't think this is an issue about Ariane. Just value for money, and IMHO--having neither product but knowing the bona fides of those who've praised PMDG here, I'd side with PMDG. PMDG's product is for the community at large, whereas I feel Ariane's product is priced to tickle the urge of some for "conspicuous consumption". Having said that, I do respect Wolfko's opinions and comments, so the jury is out until I see a review from him, if he purchases the package.-John

Michael, thats a good note. I am getting the copy for FSCentre within days, so as soon as I will try it out, I will ofcourse share my opinion. As I have not paid for it, I cant compare it with the first opinions I had before the product arrived and before I paid, but ofcourse I can compare it with PMDG for example. But why to say this one is so bad and make it even worse? We should better keep the FS community as much together as we can. If the addon does not have the button you expected, tell about it to developers, dont go whining to such forums, these guys cant help you out. The switch will then be just a dream :). Is there really a difference if its PMDG or PSS or Ariane or Dreamfleet in FS world? As I have now read out all the comments posted here, I would like to say that too much trouble for too little problem. As I can remember, PMDG first 600-700 neither got 5 star ratings and "best of the best" status in the beginning. So lets wait a bit and as its so big project, Im sure that they are also able to patch it and make it look as we want.

Calm down Randy, I realise PMDG is very important to you, but it is after all just a game. I've read your comments in this thread and I think you come off very strong in defending PMDG...other people have a right to their opinions aswell you know.I know I'm not a mod it's just a little free advice.:D-Mikkel

Mikkel although your right, in the context of this thread seeing Ariane is trying to sell and inferior product for $90+ dollars is just cause to get aggravated. I'm in defense of PMDG at this point myself. These guys have given so much with their 737NG series... Hey Randy, your blood pressure is a little high though calm down... :-)

>Is there really a difference if its PMDG orPSS or Ariane or Dreamfleet in FS world?>Well, PSS, Dreamfleet, and PMDG have consistently contributed to the community and are oustanding developers. Ariane just sucks IMO.

Wolfgang this is not about loyalty to PMDG. If Ariane produced a worthwhile product that was priced farley, I'd buy it. This is more about crap versus quality. A fool is born everyday and I think Ariane is trying to capture the fools market (which is very small I might add). A smart thing for Ariane was to produce an aircraft that no one has done before and then charge what you want. Make an A320 since PSS dropped the ball on the FS2k4 update. Then people would have a harder time turning away from an aircraft that they've wanted. This tactic is also called 'extortion' for those checking and has been frowned upon by our community for a long time. Most of us do this for the love of doing it and money doesn't outweigh enjoyment in life.Apparently Wolfgang you don't know the history of Ariane and therefore is seeing this whole thing with naive eyes. This is the same company that signed a contract with American Airlines to be the only FS add-on developer to legally use AA's logo. PMDG has never done that. We're dealing with a company with dirty laundry and at this late day and age their still trying to pull the wool over our eyes, even though we've put things in the past and forgiven them.A Scorpion will sting you no matter what you do to help him because he's a Scorpion.Ariane can produce quality work but their not in it for the joy of us all, their in it to make a profit. There's too much crap like this in the world already (go see Fahrenheit 9/11 to let you see how deep the rabbit hole really goes). In the end this is an observation by all of us that Ariane (Papa Tango) is alive and well and has the same mentality they had so many years ago (which some of us wrote off as bad judgment). As you can see now it's not bad judgment, it's just bad people in general.It's not a fight about PMDG versus Ariane, it's a wake up call....:-roll

I don't disagree there PMDG is a great product...we just have to remember that it is a forum where everyone is allowed to express their own opinion whether they are happy with PMDG or not.-Mikkel

Even without the PT issue, the text on Ariane's website about their new 737NG is so over the top that I would be very careful to buy anything from them. Combine that with the huge price tag and lack of real information (for example a downloadable manual), and you get a clear "no, thank you" from me.One important thing that makes it easy for me to trust companies like PMDG, Dreamfleet or RealAir Simulations (even without a dedicated message board for RAS, their support is outstanding none the less) is their open and friendly behavior towards their customers and the whole community. I have yet to see one of Ariane's developers on any public message board, with a real name and some helpful information ...Anyway, I'm honestly looking forward to more info on Ariane's release. I really think that people should not only (!) be judged by their past. If this plane is good, the PR is reasonably honest, trustwhorthy reviews are available and customer feedback is positive, I'd be glad to consider their future releases and maybe a discounted 737NG (but notice the four if clauses!).Just my 2c (EUR),VOlker :]

>>>>>Calm down Randy<<<<<<<

>I don't care for people bashing companies that spend huge>amounts of time designing new add-ons for Flight Simulator. I>welcome Ariane's new release and hope this raises the bar once>again for all developers out there...If Ken Lay (former CEO of Inron) is convicted of fraud, and is eventually released on parole, and starts a new company... would you do business with him (assume you need the services he's marketing)... :)While to my knowledge PT hasn't been convicted of any crimes - financial or otherwise - he has been successfully sued for good cause, and lost his case.'nuff said on that...There's an old expression, "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me!"