All this debate about our Constitution is pointless. Obama is just going to decree new laws by executive order. Constitution be damned.

 

Obama's reach is very limited. I'm not concerned about him, I am concerned about extremes on both sides taking up positions in the trenches and facing off against each other.

 

Meanwhile, nothing gets done to curb the violence that's out there. We all need to help each other here. That's not happening. I'm beginning to see the points that some have made--mass killings are happening in novel ways, not just with firearms, so gun control isn't going to just be an instant fix. We need to dig at the mentality, the anger, that's seething in people and treat it.

 

We've become so afraid of talking about mental and spiritual health in this country. Both are at risk. I'm not shy to write about spiritual health--an understanding that there's something greater out there than I am has helped me immensely in my life to deal with tough events. Many young of today, unless brought into church by their parents, aren't exposed to dealing with their spiritual selves and questions of basic good over evil. So when they are confronted with a bad situation, like a bully, they have no restraint. Something has to change.

 

John

Sure :-)

 

Thank you Jeff. And also thank you for your service.

 

Bob

 

Oh yes sure they are.

 

Two words: Arab Spring.

 

Oh gosh Ozzie, give me a break for Pete sake!

This is always an issue that brings about great debate and I for one don't see a solution that will work. I a retired US Marine and I do believe that if I want an semi-automatic weapon, it is within my rights. I do believe that every purchase should be after a background check and that guns should be registered with a ballistic sample on file for appropriate authorities to see. I don't believe that a state (NY) can or should pass laws that states that guns that have been purchased by an individual can be seized for any reason from a law abiding citizen. If you come into my house try to take my guns that I worked to pay for we will have an issue.

 

For reference on how well gun laws work. The city of Chicago has some of the toughest gun laws in the US. As of yesterday, the year was 15 days old and they have had 25 homicides of which 23 involved guns. The criminals aren't reading the laws it seems. What will change?

 

Thanks for sharing this. Many more need to see this.

 

My collection alone, maybe not. But 200 million guns is a lot of firepower.

 

If everybody agree on a common target which is far from sure in a complex situation. Some of your fellow arm holder may disagree with you and agree with the government. A lot of arm does not warrantee safety. more than likely guarantee a civil war.

 

Pierre

 

 

True.... Same is true with the government side as well. A chunk of the military folks would surely break away from a rogue government if that ever happened.

Once again, you list things that can kill, but were not designed to kill. They were designed for other use and morphed into use for killing by an insane individual.

I am all for the ownership of guns for protection of ones home and family, but not for the distribution of military weapons of war to the general civilian public.

If someone thinks that they need this kind of weapon to protect them self from a "government gone mad", it is because they are neurotic themselves.

But, for the sake of stretching the fictional imagination to the fullest, and saying that this would be a good reason for civilian citizens having military assault weapons, it is obvious that all of the military assault weapons that were available to ben Laden, were of little use when ST6 decided to remove him from this planet. So that argument is just as insane as those who tote it around.

 

If someone breaks into my home wearing a commonly available $400 Kevlar vest, a pistol or shotgun will not defeat the body armor. An AR-15 will.

 

If civil order breaks down to the point where police are overwhelmed, as it did in Los Angeles during the 1992 riots, and as it did in New Orleans following Hurricane Katrina, the only weapons standing between you and an armed lawless mob is what you had the foresight to acquire before the incident. Store owners in LA openly brandished AR-15 and AK-47 rifles to defend their businesses from rioting looters who were killing people in the streets, and neighbors banded together to protect themselves in New Orleans in the same way. Try facing down 50 rampaging criminals with a bolt-action .308 deer rifle.

 

The history of insurgency in the last century shows that an armed populace with the will to fight cannot be easily controlled, even with modern advanced weaponry. Look at what has happened in VietNam, Somalia, and Afghanistan as examples. The idea that an armed population is simply rolled over and beaten with modern weaponry isn't supported by any recent attempt, including our own 12-year experience in Afghanistan. So don't sell the value of an armed populace short.

 

This is not true at all. Private citizens could not freely use canons or other weapons designed for mass killing. Only pistols and muskets were available to them.

 

Do some reading on the Revolutionary War. Cannons were largely ineffective against the colonials' unconventional style of guerilla warfare. That war was won with muskets.

I own assault rifles, I don't go on killing spree's (I just use tons of aviation fuel ). Why do I need an assault rifle? I don't NEED it, I like owning one and shooting one at the range, and thats what it is, a range gun. By this same logic does someone NEED a Corvette or a Cessna Citation X? No, why do they have it, because they wanted it and could afford it. I do agree that PROACTIVE steps can be taken to ensure that the wrong people don't get them, but I should not be punished for someone else's deranged stupidity. Again by that logic it would be if someone assaulted you and instead you went to jail instead of the assailant, or your house gets burglarized and instead of the criminal going to jail you do, it makes no sense. Ban assault rifles and the mass killings stop with assault rifles? NO, that same logic again this time illicit drug paraphernalia, is crack cocaine legal in any state, NO, is it a problem in every state, YES. Banning something does nothing if someone wants something bad enough and knows where to get it, they will get it, you can NOT stop this without turning any country into North Korea, even then corruption exists and some people will have access to what others can't have.

 

Stricter background checks - DO IT

 

Close loop holes in private sales - DO IT

 

mental screening for firearm purchasers - DO IT

 

required safety classes on firearm ownership (including range time to show safe operation) - DO IT

 

require proper firearm storage - DO IT

 

banning weapons or ammunition magazines - INEFFECTIVE DO NOT EVEN TRY IT.

I find it astonishing that this well meaning and strongly believed matter, but which is nonetheless political in purpose and intent, is allowed to run - while debate and discussion around the new simulator Prepar3D is chopped off as "a breach".

 

The issue of balance is really at issue here. We can discuss a political issue but cannot discuss, at our own risk, our assertedly legal use of P3D.

If they take your guns, other rights will follow - It's happened in history before..

Not in the UK at least, very strict gun laws there yet it's a free democratic country.

 

Anyway, I think the most important part with gun laws would be effectively preventing people with mental problems from getting access to guns. Typical criminals will sure always be able to get guns no matter what (although it's a good idea to make it harder to them too), but these people with severe mental problems are completely another thing, I highly believe most of them wouldn't have committed their acts if they didn't have so easy access to guns, in many cases these people act impulsively and probably wouldn't have strength to do proper longer time effort required to get illegal gun (for somebody with no criminal past).

 

Then secondly people should look at why these people have their problems, more resources should definitely be put into mental healthcare, attitudes towards bullying and other stuff like that should be changed.

 

At least in here Finland both major school shootings during last 10 years were committed by young people with history of depression, getting bullied and isolated from the society and daily life. Also every such act here during last 10 years has been committed with legal guns either owned or taken from somebody near.

 

 

The idea that an armed population is simply rolled over and beaten with modern weaponry isn't supported by any recent attempt, including our own 12-year experience in Afghanistan.

 

Well that's mainly because most of the time US troops have more or less tried to avoid killing innocent unarmed civilians, if world would ever be so full of large scale conflicts that even United States would get invaded I don't think that invader would much care about morality.

 

Any superpower that would be able to invade United States would sure have enough weapons of mass destruction to bombard whole country back to stone age, I wonder how long resistance would last if all the major cities and power plants destroyed.

 

Of course this doesn't matter anyway as any country attacking the US seems extremely unlikely, more likely it will break from inside at some point.

I am simply staggered at what I have read in this thread - staggered!

This thread is the very definition of a tragic comedy... Watching arguments between self proclaimed experts and cognitive biased people is quite entertaining. There is no quick fix. Violence is part of human nature and those looking for a deadly weapon will find it no matter where they live, legally or illegally.

Violence is part of human nature and those looking for a deadly weapon will find it no matter where they live, legally or illegally.

Gun violence statistics clearly indicate that countries with higher amount of legal weapons & less gun control in general also have more gun violence. That applies with this country too, we have had 2 major school shootings within last 7 years and loads of smaller acts while in our neighbor Sweden with less legal guns & 2x our population there have been 0 major school shootings.

 

Now, of course other things might affect this too such as depression and other mental problem rates which are way higher in here Finland, but in general I think if this country had way less guns there would sure also be less acts like this.

 

Also at least in this country obtaining illegal weapon isn't that easy for someone with no criminal history, for somebody with no contacts to right people I suppose. I honestly can't imagine some severely depressed young adult to go around city looking for places where underworld gathers searching for illegal gun. No, more likely that person would just kill himself instead or use some less deadly easily available weapon such as a knife.

Gun violence statistics clearly indicate that countries with higher amount of legal weapons & less gun control in general also have more gun violence. That applies with this country too, we have had 2 major school shootings within last 7 years and loads of smaller acts while in our neighbor Sweden with less legal guns & 2x our population there have been 0 major school shootings.

 

Now, of course other things might affect this too such as depression and other mental problem rates which are way higher in here Finland, but in general I think if this country had way less guns there would sure also be less acts like this.

 

Also at least in this country obtaining illegal weapon isn't that easy for someone with no criminal history, for somebody with no contacts to right people I suppose. I honestly can't imagine some severely depressed young adult to go around city looking for places where underworld gathers searching for illegal gun. No, more likely that person would just kill himself instead or use some less deadly easily available weapon such as a knife.

 

You can use statistics to prove anything and nothing. The issue is much more complex than that. Norway for instance, apart from the 22. july terrorist attack (which is more in the category of the Oklahoma bomber, than school shootings), has very little gun violence, yet it is number 11 on the list of most weapons per capita. http://www.gunpolicy.org/

 

The issue is complex and you have to add factors like standard of living, income distribution, culture, degree of urbanization, population desnsity, public health and then some if you want to get to the bottom of things. Also, schools shootings etc. are relatively few and far between, even in the USA, so creating trustworthy statistics and science out of those tragic incidents is very hard, if not impossibe.

 

BTW, Sweden is number 10 on the list, just a few spots behind Finland at number 4.

When did this become a political forum? Come on people,this forum is supposed to be for enjoyment not to hash over political crap!!!!!!!!!!! I would like to see this topic banned from further dicussion on this forum. Hello Moderators.

You stole my words

Oh well I didn't know Norway has that many guns...

 

But yeah I get your point, Finland vs other Nordic countries was a bad example as this country is full of mental problems and alcoholism while Swedes, Norwegians and others seem to be generally living more stable and happy life, now when I look in Sweden with almost 2x bigger population amount of all homicides seems to be way lower every year so lower gun homicide rate isn't really related to just amount of guns but also to lower overall homicide rate.

 

http://yle.fi/uutise...country/5627552

 

I still fail to understand how on earth this country can be the best country to live in while our neighbors Sweden and especially Norway clearly have almost everything done better and less crime, suicide and mental problems. Maybe somebody paid them to make that rubbish article.