In reality the general definition is something along these lines:
Flight in to visible moisture (cloud, rain, drizzle, hail or snow) at temperatures between -20 and +10°c SAT (also mist or fog with a visibility of less than 1000 metres).

The reason you need to worry about moisture above 0°c is because air pressure drops as it is accelerated in a jet engine intake or piston engine carburettor, causing a corresponding temperature drop; even though the ambient temperature is above freezing it may be below freezing in the intake. Hot conditions do not preclude the formation of ice, 30°c at sea level is 0°c at FL150.

 

You don't get icing at typical jet cruising altitudes because it's too cold, you're most likely to encounter it during climb and descent through cloud or rain (and obviously takeoff and landing too).

There is a very detailed explanation of the various types of ice and its effects at:
http://www.atraircraft.com/content/media/downloads/coldweatheroperations_2011_20.pdf

 

If you have pneumatic deicing boots that inflate to shed ice, you must be careful to only activate them when enough ice has built up on the leading edge, otherwise ice can build up on the inflated boot which makes them ineffective (most FS addons do not simulate this, Majestic Q400 and PMDG J41 are exceptions that spring to mind). That doesn't apply to the NGX (or most jets) as they heat the leading edges instead.

Should i get FScaptain instead guys?

In reality the general definition is something along these lines:

Flight in to visible moisture (cloud, rain, drizzle, hail or snow) at temperatures between -20 and +10°c SAT (also mist or fog with a visibility of less than 1000 metres).

 

The reason you need to worry about moisture above 0°c is because air pressure drops as it is accelerated in a jet engine intake or piston engine carburettor, causing a corresponding temperature drop; even though the ambient temperature is above freezing it may be below freezing in the intake. Hot conditions do not preclude the formation of ice, 30°c at sea level is 0°c at FL150.

 

You don't get icing at typical jet cruising altitudes because it's too cold, you're most likely to encounter it during climb and descent through cloud or rain (and obviously takeoff and landing too).

 

There is a very detailed explanation of the various types of ice and its effects at:

http://www.atraircraft.com/content/media/downloads/coldweatheroperations_2011_20.pdf

 

If you have pneumatic deicing boots that inflate to shed ice, you must be careful to only activate them when enough ice has built up on the leading edge, otherwise ice can build up on the inflated boot which makes them ineffective (most FS addons do not simulate this, Majestic Q400 and PMDG J41 are exceptions that spring to mind). That doesn't apply to the NGX (or most jets) as they heat the leading edges instead.

I don't think you're going to be seeing any ice at +30C on a turbojet.

 

The engine anti-ice doesn't heat anything other than the lip of the cowl. There's no spinner heat or heat other than compression and combustion on the 737.

 

I think "ice bridging" has been largely disproven on boots.

 

My company actually just told us that we should use the WAI as that - ANTI, not de-ice. They think we are denting the tail when we she's ice.

Hot conditions do not preclude the formation of ice, 30°c at sea level is 0°c at FL150.

I don't think you're going to be seeing any ice at +30C on a turbojet.

I fear you misunderstand me; if it's +30°c on the ground then icing conditions are likely to exist between FL100 and FL200 if there is any visible moisture, because at those altitude the temperature will be around 0°c.

 

PS: The link I gave in my previous post to information about icing was dead, the file has been moved to http://www.atraircraft.com/userfiles/files/coldweatheroperations_2011_20.pdf

 

I think "ice bridging" has been largely disproven on boots.

The FAA say it's a myth but some manufacturer's manuals such as those from BAe, Cessna and Beechcraft say pilots should delay activation of boots until one quarter or one half inch of ice has accumulated. I don't believe ice bridging happens with modern multi-chamber boots inflating rapidly at high pressure, but could be an issue with older systems?

Does icev10.zip work with P3D?

Does icev10.zip work with P3D?

Sounds like a question best addressed to LM since they are the developer of P3D.

This is a very old post. Are there any new developments in P3d v3?

 

Is the NGX icing still unsimulated. Or 'crude' as said before?

 

Can PMDG evolve things further with future releases?

Can PMDG evolve things further with future releases?

 

Not much we can do here. The sim itself doesn't even really have water in it currently. We need water and refined ice simulations from either the sim or some add-on weather program. So far, I don't think we have that.

 

Outside of that, I can't say I'd recommend anything outside of what an add-on weather program can offer currently. Be aware that other, lesser known programs can interfere with things, and if you see anything odd, remove that before requesting support.

Not much we can do here. The sim itself doesn't even really have water in it currently. We need water and refined ice simulations from either the sim or some add-on weather program. So far, I don't think we have that.

 

Outside of that, I can't say I'd recommend anything outside of what an add-on weather program can offer currently. Be aware that other, lesser known programs can interfere with things, and if you see anything odd, remove that before requesting support.

I have been using Active Sky beta for p3d v3.

 

How, good are icing effects , in ASN? It is difficult to varify icing is happening. Unexpected stalls laggy accelleration?

How, good are icing effects , in ASN? It is difficult to varify icing is happening. Unexpected stalls laggy accelleration?

 

Not sure. To be honest, unless you're flying GA, you really don't notice much icing. If you're getting to the point where it's going to be bad, you don't fly.

 

The wing isn't going to spontaneously stall. There will be tells, depending on the air frame, but again, most large aircraft have systems good enough to combat decent levels of icing. Laggy acceleration would only really come about because of the cost of the AI being driven off of the bleed (which pulls from the available air going out the back of the engine).

I was just about asking (hoping for) the same thing, that maybe something changed for the better the last couple of years when it comes to the simulation of icing in our virtual world.

 

After all some other things that were said to be 100% impossible to simulate a few years back are now perfectly working features in several aircraft such as the weather radar.

 

I've read several threads on this topic (most of them a couple of years old) and one fact most of them seem to share looking at an aircraft such as the NGX is that icing rarely is a problem IRL thanks to the effective anti- and de-icing systems found on these aircraft. That however is of course provided you use those systems correctly and when required.

 

This is where my actual question or rather my wish/hope comes into the picture.

 

I do all my flying in the NGX and I try to always operate as close to real world ops as possible in every aspect including the use of anti- and de-icing systems but it just feels a bit stupid being so careful with these systems when I at the same time know absolutely nothing will happen if I don't use them. I wish there was some way to have the NGX bite your a** if you forgot to use these systems when the weather conditions require you to.

 

I haven't read through all posts in all threads on this topic so please forgive me if this was already answered but did someone successfully manage to tweak the icing simulation in the NGX using the gauge someone developed a couple of years ago or using some other method to at least introduce some kind of "penalty" if you forget or don't bother to use these systems in the NGX?

 

And for PMDG, do you think there's any chance you could come up with a solution if you worked together with a company specialized in wx simulation such as HiFi in the same way you did with the wx radar?

 

In my eyes you are both the best of the best in your field of expertise so I would really like to think it would be possible for you to come up with a method to simulate realistic icing conditions.

I actually picked up ice departing MDW in snow the other day with the -800NGX and ASN for P3D. I thought something was wrong with the sim because I was pitched up 12 degrees or so passing 12k and only climbing at like 1300 fpm. I was running the Engine A/I only but as soon as I flipped on the wing A/I I started doing 2500+ fpm. Not that having all the ice melt instantly is realistic either but better than nothing.

 

Ben

Wow, that's really cool since that would indicate icing affecting the aircraft performance indeed is modelled in the NGX!

 

Will try to skip using WAI for the next couple of flights and see if I will experience the same thing.

 

Could someone from PMDG confirm this is not only wishful thinking?

 

Also as already asked in my last post, did someone successfully try that freeware gauge that has been discussed with the NGX?

I think the icing feature is part of the latest version of ASN (and therefore applicable to all types) rather than the NGX itself.

Ah, OK - maybe you're right.

 

Will check it out with the HiFi guys.