Would someone please enlighten me on this matter

 

 

When, say, I'm flying an approach into GCTS in the NGX, like I was recently, I am faced with an approach waypoint (Black dot) like the one in the picture, how do I get the aircraft (what do I need to tell the FMC) to "Follow the red line" in looping around the waypoint to intercept the glideslope, as opposed to a straight sharp right hander, as shown by the blue line?

 

Cheers guys, and sorry for my epic Paint skills..

I love your paint skills...

 

Now on topic, I let FMC do this kamikaze sharp turn but I manage the ngx's energy: I'll make sure that I am not overspeeding.

As a matter of fact, if FMC is on the deceleration I will use flaps & gear to waste airspeed asap, always keeping the air brake

ready to deploy...

 

But I hope someone can jump in and explain this as I am no professional.

 

Without Vnav I'll stil be managing my airspeed and in this case I would make sure that before the black dot

I would be around flap 3 speed - gear down to manage the "energy" and interepting into a stable approach.

 

Hope this helps a bit.

Your either going to follow radar vectors from atc, so do what you want using heading select on the autopilot or follow instructions from vatsim etc.

 

Or follow the star or the ils chart, in which case, fly it manually or in autopilot if the fmc has the star.

 

Or put some waypoints into the fmc manually.

 

If drawing is the correct procedure, then I'm sure it must be a standard approach so there will be a chart for it.

 

Iain

I looked at charts for GCTS and that approach doesn't exist. The closest thing there is to his drawing is a procedure turn, but it's to the opposite side.

 

The 737 systems are good, but not THAT good. No fast airplane is, for that matter. If you're coming in an angle greater than 90º from the final approach heading, you'll need a very low speed and you'll have to start turning way before you reach that waypoint, so that you don't overshoot the localizer.

 

Now that bring us to another point: transitions. If your flight plan will bring you in a too high of an angle related to the approach path, use transitions. At GCTS you can fly to the TES NDB, which is located within the airport's limits, and then fly back course, executing a procedure turn 12NM out. That would be much easier to perform with a large jet than what you described in that drawing.

 

Most approaches in the world have some kind of transition, so that whatever direction you're coming from, you'll always have an easy way to do that procedure without having to do any "stunts" or dangerous maneuvers.

Just do whats drawn at chart. You have 2 (or 3) options at that airport. Assuming you would use TFS VOR, you can use a holding pattern for rwy 08 or procedure turn for rwy26. than continue at ILS, LOC or VOR what you prefer the most. Exclusively, you can do TFS DME ARC (after BAMEL) for rwy 08 if you want to avoid holding pattern.

 

EDIT: I think you want to approach TFS from MERAN, only that STAR can give you angle you described.

 

It should be done in this way:

 

You are big red dot, first come to TFS VOR, execute parallel enty into holding pattern, painted in red, then use extended legs painted in blue.

When I am faced with something like that (and I wouldn't want to dig up charts), I would do the following: I'd switch to heading mode, going somewhere as the green line indicates, and somewhere near the arrow I would change the heading so it will lead me toward the black dot, giving me a nice intercept of the ILS. Simple as that. I would never do that red circle you painted: 1. you would (dangerously) overfly other planes on approach, 2. it takes a lot more time and 3. doing such a large circle isn't too comfortable.

 

Do not forget that the FMC is there to help you, not to bother you. So when a problem is easier solved by switching to another mode, simply do so. (I do my descends and approaches 99% of the time in LVL CHG mode). Entering that turn you painted into the FMC is way to much work. ^_^

 

BTW To the others: do airliners ever do procedure turns in real life? A lot of procedure turns I know (for instance above England) let you first fly straight over the airport... don't see that happen soon in real life. Usually ATC will direct you to the FAF (or the STAR (with transition) will take you to the FAF).

1. you would (dangerously) overfly other planes on approach,

Yea, at first, I thought its too dangerous, but according to vertical profile, there should be over 2k feet of vertical separation in the worst case.

 

Beside that, if ATC stack aircrafts at that holding pattern, you do not have other choice.

 

Entering that turn you painted into the FMC is way to much work.

 

Just switch to VOR mode, you do not need LNAV/VNAV for this kind of approach. Its fun :smile:

Yea, at first, I thought its too dangerous, but according to vertical profile, there should be over 2k feet of vertical separation in the worst case.

 

 

Yes, but I don't have the idea the OP is using charts so he might as well be screaming into that circle at final approach height... ^_^

 

Just switch to VOR mode, you do not need LNAV/VNAV for this kind of approach. Its fun

 

 

Again agreed! If you want to follow the entire chart, that is. But again, if the OP doesn't use charts... B) I've been using ProATC/X lately so I hardly look at charts anymore, I have to say... :mellow: but it IS indeed big FUN following approach charts to the letter! I did that a LOT last year (after finally learning how to use VOR and read charts properly).

Guys, it isn't that complicated. This is something that every instrument pilot learns when they learn about instrument approaches.

 

If your track isn't within 30 degrees of the final approach course, you cannot join final directly. Instead, you must complete a procedure turn or sector entry to the hold.

 

Now, the real FMCs have no trouble doing a procedure turn or hold. However, PMDG, for whatever reason, are still reluctant to change their database format and modify the FMC software to allow for (among other things) procedure turns. Particularly in Australia where there are only twenty-some controlled aerodromes, it is common for aircraft to conduct a procedure turn. It is impossible to do this using LNAV in PMDG aircraft and instead we have to use the old fashioned way of twiddling the heading bug.

To answer specifically what the OP asked, you can do this:

 

Let's say the course from point A to the runway is 075. After point A you can create for example this,

(PointA)290/7 and insert it after point A in the legs page.

Now creat a point that is an extension of the 075 course that passes over A and to the runway.

(PointA)255/7. Insert that after the previous custom waypoint. Now below that insert the original point A again. After that you should remove all other waypoints between point A and rwy08 waypoint.

 

You have now created a waypoint for your whole drawing. Point A, outbound to user waypoint 1, left turn to user waypoint 2, back over point A and on to the runway.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Xander

How i would usually fly an approach is i would try to break off from that blue line and follow a similar green shown by a picture above that is so i can manage my speed and altitude Through Flch and VNAV so i have more control of my descent and not be on a 3 mile final and be 200 KTS it will be more like a 10 to 5 mile final at 205 kts flap 1 and slowing for flap 5 gear down flap 15 continue app slow flap 30 and then land.

At this specific airport or generally?

 

For this airport, if you want to do something like J van E described using VNAV/LNAV, after MERAN fix you can add new waypoints TES240/15 and restrict it to 180/2100, and then new TFS255/5.That will give you something similar to that green line J van E drawn.

 

Basically, you want one waypoint to be approximately 15nm from runway and 15 degrees off rwy extended centerline, and second waypoint at extended ceterline some 10-12nm.

 

EDIT: I forgot to add you should delete some waypoints, but this is wgat it should looks like:

 

DEFAULT approach without changes:

 

CHANGED approach to follow J van E's idea:

 

Little bit closer:

I thought my "artwork" was really bad when I played "Draw Something" on my ipad, but compared to the drawings in this post I'm the second coming of Rembrandt.

First, the thought that ATC is going to let aircraft get that close to each other is a little off the mark. Sure, they might stack on TFS, but they're not going to put aircraft down at the approach altitudes until the path is clear. That would mean that they would have knowledge of (either observed - radar - or reported by the crew - non-radar) the aircraft on the approach being past TFS, and inbound to the airport.

 

Second, the teardrop entry is drawn backwards in post 5. In post 1, it's on the non-protected side (your pattern entry can be however you'd like it - parallel or teardrop - as long as it's on the protected side, or the side of the course that shows the holding procedure). If you were going to enter from the angle in post 5, you'd want to use a parallel by the book. If you wanted to teardrop, you would "bounce" off of the radial. What I mean by that is you'd track inbound to the 075 radial, once it centers, turn left away from the radial on a 30 degree deviation (so fly on a heading of 225) for one minute, turn right at a standard rate and re-intercept the 075 radial, track it inbound, overfly TFS, and continue to the field.