I was in this boat until 737NGX - first VC that was truly usable in FSX.

I'm going to disagree. I have been a pure VC flyer since I first started using fsx, and always used the VC in my fs9 payware. Infact, I do not install aircraft that do not have a satisfactory VC. I have not found this to be limiting in anyway. Infact, I can not fly from 2D at all. I just completely lose all situational awareness. I don't have any camera add ons, or TrackIR. Completely the default FSX camera system and occasional use of popups. I find it all intuitive and immersive, and much closer to the experience of been in a real cockpit. (have used a 737 sim and fly GA, so can back this up)

 

To each there own for sure, but to those who currently do not use the VC give yourself the challenge of using it exclusively for a week, it's what I did on fs9 in 2008 on the default 747 and have never looked back.

I'm not about to rewrite the gauges. They've already been beautifully rendered by PMDG.

Instead, I'd create some background bitmaps. I'd then place the PMDG gauges home cockpit makers use, like those in the pop-up 2d displays, by writing a revised panel.cfg.

 

I would then write small button gauges and use the SDK to trigger actions from button switches and presses on my own 2d panel. So if I create a VNAV button, I'd write the code that would trigger PMDGs VNAV.

 

Through the panel.cfg, I'd put everything together.

 

While writing PMDG type gauges is a particularly complex exercise, building a panel using existing gauges or creating simple interactive gauges is not. That is as Microsoft intended.

 

On the issue of using the 2d panel, it's not taking my hand off the throttle that bothers me. You have to do that in a real plane too! It's taking my hand off the throttle, panning, zooming and clicking that I find unnatural. In a real plane and in a 2d panel, all I need to do is press the button.

 

Anyway, my preference for interacting with the sim is neither here nor there. If the SDK allows me to trigger PMDG actions, like toggling PMDG's VNAV on and off,I will be able to happily start my own 2d panel project.

Certainly quite the task. If you pull it off, I'm sure you'll make many simmers very happy. My hat is off to you for wanting to even attempt this undertaking.

If you plan on using anything but that BEAUTIFUL flight deck that PMDG have developed - you're just straight up crazzzzy. 

If no 2D, I will do like a lot of people that I know not be buying it. I like virtual when taxiing but prefer 2D when flying.

 

AL

 

All I know  there will be  heaps more  buying  it  than not  buying  it,  so  you and  yourself  will be  missing  out.

I can't fly in 2D cockpit for the simple reason I'm using TrackIR and won't put it away.

And when you get in the 2D with the whole panel moves with the view and it's quite disconcerting to have a glareshield at 90° side from the plane axis!

You guys convinced me to make an effort in trying to fly VC with Track IR. I have all PMDG so I will try to get used to the B737 VC and will see the result. I will do it for the next several weeks to see if I can get used to it.

 

Thanks

 

Al

Happily, PMDG have made it real easy to make at least a basic 2D panel, because they've already taken care of some of the hardest bits (for instance all the MCP knobs).

 

Here's my 20 minute job, ripping up the old PSS background bmp.  It's missing a master caution light, and I've gone for the old-school 3-panel look like PMDG had in their earlier aircraft, because I can't be bothered building a gear lever gauge, and because the SDK hasn't been released that would let me build all the other knobs.

 

I'm using this as a hybrid with the VC overhead panel (and the caution light!).

 

I've also set up a few other 2d windows - like a lower DU, the radios, and the selector for the lower DU.  And I've stuck in the clock by Pierre Fasseaux (off the avsim library).

 

The framerates are much higher (as you'd expect), and VAS usage has greatly reduced (because I've turned everything off - except what seems to be critical stuff).

 

 

Hello,

 

nice to see that the initiial proof of concept works well for you...  Wonder where will this lead to.

Hello Bryn

 

Could you tell me how you did it ?  I use PMDG for RL training and this bizarre VC panel is useless for me.

 

Regards

 

Vicente

All I did was write a new panel.cfg file, placing the gauges on a background bmp file. I'd share it with you, but the background image I used is from the FS9 PSS 777.

 

Here's an image of all the panels open, inflight at the moment.  In my first version of this panel.cfg, I found that I had erratic LNAV behaviour.  I reverted to including all of the VC sections of the original PMDG panel.cfg, and it seemed to have stopped.  I guess I missed a crucial gauge somewhere.

 

The panel continues to perform exceptionally well.  Low VAS, high FPS, no mouse cursor fps bug, and most crucially for me, its clear, highly readable, and doesn't require all that panning and so forth.  I come from the Hardy Heinlin school (aerowinx 747), where its all about authenticity in systems, instruments and procedures, and not about how it looks! :-)

 

 

 

The panel continues to perform exceptionally well.  Low VAS, high FPS, no mouse cursor fps bug, and most crucially for me, its clear, highly readable, and doesn't require all that panning and so forth.  I come from the Hardy Heinlin school (aerowinx 747), where its all about authenticity in systems, instruments and procedures, and not about how it looks! :-)

 

The ironic thing here is, in 2013 consumers nearly need to "jailbreak" their "modern" aircrafts with further tools like (EZDOK or TrackIR) to use them almost how they are familiar with.

 

It seems the spirit of Apple is omnipresent!    

 

Btw. you are demonstrating how easy it seems to be, to realise what satisfies potential customers finally, who still aren't impressed by PMDGs decision dropping 2D panels.

 

keep up the good work  :Hug:

Bryn,

 

Is it possible to send me the panel.cfg you used?

 

If possible the PSS 777 BMP as well.

 

Really appreciate your help.

 

Cheers

 

Vicente

 

 

Btw. you are demonstrating how easy it seems to be, to realise what satisfies potential customers finally, who still aren't impressed by PMDGs decision dropping 2D panels.

 

If it were so easy, he'd have the whole set up by now.  Additionally, he's using the old PSS panel BMP.  PMDG can't do that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement

Of course everyone is entitled to their own tastes but personally I find this obsession with 2d and desire to remain in the past instead of embrace the amazing advances in fs truly bizarre. If this horrible 2d panel was the currant state of flight simulation having seen and had a taste of what you can experience I would pack up and forget about simming today. there is no 2d in a real flightdeck they are simply a horrible relic from a time when technology wouldn't allow more. To me it would be like replacing the fmc with an abacus!

 

so I guess we all get something different out of flight simulation. and for me personally realism is absolutely key to enjoyment of it because its crucial to the all important immersion factor and feel there factor that a 2d simply does not provide.

 

 

my suggestion is just use the vc use ezdoc but turn off any vibrations and movement it will actually be simpler this way than having to open a million 2d panels every time you want to turn a switch or look at a different panel.you cah zoom anywhere in a preset view with ezoc with one key press and configure the view to be perfectly still allowing easy mouse use .anywhere.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.cheers

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

kav

It's not possible for me to distribute the background bmp, and that makes it kinda useless distributing the panel.cfg.

 

It's important to note that nearly all of the panels are just using PMDG designed gauges. The MCP for instance is ready to go. As is the radio panel. It should be really easy for any user to do what I did. One hour of work, max. Though bear in mind PMDG have made it incredibly clear that they won't provide any support to user mods like mine.

 

I do wish PMDG had provided a 2D panel layout though. Their 2D panel art in the 737 was really nice.

 

With regard to the previous poster, I'm not sure why anyone would rock up in a thread about designing 2D panels just to knock them, other than to troll. So let's not engage in that discussion again.