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alainneedle1

There is an answer from Nick

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So let me simplify this with my simple mind (to reference another rock band):

 

You choose.

 

You choose GEX, or you choose ORBX.

 

Big deal.

 

I personally, as I haven't had sufficient time nor inclination to master all the layer cake intricacies of FSX scenery, simply prefer to stick with one environment, one company product line, precisely to have a relatively "closed" system (like Apple) where internal effort has been made to insure consistency and stability.

 

Does this "lock out" the competition? No. I can do the same thing with their stuff.

 

Am I going to mix and match, even with all the assurances in the world of compatibility between different companies' interacting systems? Me, personally, no; I'm going to be cautious about that, as there's only so much fiddling with the dangly bits I'm willing to do in FSX as a side hobby along with actually flying in the thing.

 

That's not to say I won't get braver in the future and, for instance, install Megascenery JFK or something because I want a photorealistic look for that area (though I won't because I'm simply not a fan of that approach; it's good for tube liners but I want to enjoy the 3D laundry on the rooftops at 800 feet altitude in my Piper JS-3 instead, even if it is misplaced laundry).

 

But I do appreciate the coherence and effort that comes from one source. Call it irritation stemming from too many years of using an OS that has 42 different ways of doing every single thing in it, and too many years of promises about compatibility that end up in long, cross-global phone calls with cheerful, articulate support people doing their best but mostly paid pennies to read from a script that starts with, well, you need to reinstall everything from scratch or better, just buy a new computer and start over.

 

I will evolve, with research in places like this, towards ever more ambitious collages of software from company A running its fingers through the hair of software from company B, over time; but I will need ample evidence my PC will not be at risk of catching a fatal disease for having done so.

 

So, in my case, it's ORBX all the way, and I'm sure in fact that despite the rhetoric from competitors, they are also cognizant of the value of putting effort into compatibility. But that's a two-way street, too. You've got to work together to have any chance, instead of complaining bitterly when something changes on you.

 

No-one ever has complete control over anything. So in the end we all end up collaborating anyways.

 

That's why communism is inevitable. :D

 

And on that ranty note: done. Hope this was entertaining! :)

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

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Er, if we "broke" the standard landclass class calls then UTX, SceneryTech, openVFR, TrueLandscape France etc would all *not* work, correct? And we were stupid to show preview screenshots on our forums using those exact addons from other developers if they did not work, right?

 

Try telling the many thousands of customers now using those LC addons with FTXG that we broke their sim and locked them into our ecosystem, and their investment in previous LC is wasted. No? Didn't think so.

 

We spent ten years learning our craft, firstly on freeware for FS9 then with Orbx for FSX. FTXG is the culmination of a decade of R&D, damn hard work and an understanding our market. We did not appear out of nowhere as newbies and steal someone else's thunder.

 

FTXG is just the beginning; we have a whole series of products planned that will completely reinvigorate FSX/P3D and embrace the new tech in P3D 2.x - we plan years ahead, not a month ahead.

 

Never once in our company history have we panned a competitor's product, and the trend in fact is that we are embracing "co-opertition" between developers in our small community.

 

Anyway, we have work to do, bugs to fix, patches to make, products to release, landclass to make. Life's too short to spend on forum flame wars.

 

You have nothing to explain. You have every right to make your products in any way you like - you wouldn't exactly be the first business model to 'lock customers into their ecosystem'. Frankly making the custom landclass such that it's compatible with other addons is a courtesy you're paying to them, not a right. NickN talks as if there's some kind of 'moral code' within the FS community that doesn't exist anywhere else in the world, where you have to help each other make profit, and clearly is only immaturely whining because ultimately once OpenLC is released people won't have a massive use for GEX and UTX.

 

Personally, I'd much rather see you guys making Global/OpenLC to the best of your abilities and forget about compatibility with other landclass addons - but if you can do both, that's great!


Luke Harvest

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It's not a good example, because FS2CrewNGX do not interfere with other addons. It doesn't work with default 737 but it do not broke it neither. You can technically use FTXG with ANY landclass addon but LC mapping will probably went all wrong.

 

No one is forcing you to buy OpenLC. If you like other LC products, use them instead.

 

Global (the base version) works fine with landclass products. I'm running UTX right now. Works fine.

 

Yeah, right, like green grand canyon  :lol:

 

As I said, I do not blame them, they are trying to optimize texture calls for their future LC projects, but the only fact is they did mixed some texture calls, and that can cause incompatibility even with default LC. Look at that as positive or negative thing, I don't care, it's subjective feeling.

 

Yeah, but now Asia isn't a barren wasteland and Northern Europe doesn't look like the SW United States.

 

This has been explained ad nausem. To fix vast regions of the world they had to compromise on a little green tint in some desert areas. It's impossible to fix this without landclass.

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GEX and FTXG fanbois in full swing. Texture wars in the making. This is getting seriously silly.


Jacek G.

 

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No one is forcing you to buy OpenLC. If you like other LC products, use them instead.

 

Global (the base version) works fine with landclass products. I'm running UTX right now. Works fine.

 

Hi, I have not purchased but was curious about your statement.  You said "Global (the base version) works fine with landclass products." Are you saying FTXG comes with an LC? If so have you disabled it and are using all of the UTX landclasses? I think UTX has 4 or 5 LC's. Just curious as I did not believe there was an LC that came with FTXG. UTX also replaces some textures. Have you tried textures from both Global and UTX as a comparison?

 

Bob


Officially retired

 

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(...)

 

 

Yeah, but now Asia isn't a barren wasteland and Northern Europe doesn't look like the SW United States.

 

This has been explained ad nausem. To fix vast regions of the world they had to compromise on a little green tint in some desert areas. It's impossible to fix this without landclass.

 

 

I fully agree, bonchie:

 

Before the ORBX compromise we had a default FSX/Microsoft compromise. Did we have the same uproar in 2007? Did I miss something???


What happened to AVSIM

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You have nothing to explain. You have every right to make your products in any way you like - you wouldn't exactly be the first business model to 'lock customers into their ecosystem'. Frankly making the custom landclass such that it's compatible with other addons is a courtesy you're paying to them, not a right. NickN talks as if there's some kind of 'moral code' within the FS community that doesn't exist anywhere else in the world, where you have to help each other make profit, and clearly is only immaturely whining because ultimately once OpenLC is released people won't have a massive use for GEX and UTX.

 

Personally, I'd much rather see you guys making Global/OpenLC to the best of your abilities and forget about compatibility with other landclass addons - but if you can do both, that's great!

 

True and in order to make FSX better things have to be fixed. Orbx has made vast fixes to the lookup table and they are already working with other developers to make sure everything works with it.

 

If NickN is totally unwilling to do this then that's his fault. I'm not willing to sacrifice actual progress this sim so desperately needs just to keep compatibility with a few addons the vast majority don't even use (that freeware scenery some keep citing for example).

 

Besides, his claims aren't even true for the most part. Every major landclass product works with Global from what I've seen.

 

And as a last resort, you can simply disable FTX Global through FTX Central if you want to use it but have some addons that don't play nice with it. It takes all of 20 seconds to click the button. Then when your done, re-enable it.

Hi, I have not purchased but was curious about your statement.  You said "Global (the base version) works fine with landclass products." Are you saying FTXG comes with an LC? If so have you disabled it and are using all of the UTX landclasses? I think UTX has 4 or 5 LC's. Just curious as I did not believe there was an LC that came with FTXG. UTX also replaces some textures. Have you tried textures from both Global and UTX as a comparison?

 

Bob

 

It comes with some base landclass fixes (mostly in Asia) and a demo region in the Baltics to show what OpenLC will do. Despite the naysayers, FTXG does in fact come with landclass in some places.

 

It does not add landclass for the majority of the world though. It plays perfectly fine with UTX. The only issue is the "LUX landclass layer" needs to be disabled so night textures blend together perfectly. The main landclass and vegitation landclass layers stay on.

 

All the other UTX textures (parking lots, parks, golf courses, etc.) work just fine and all their vector data is perfect.

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I don't understand all the drama over a piece of software that is closing in on a decade old!

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The funny thing is, all the GEX people (heck i own the NA region) who are complaining about JV ignore that Nick is just as much, if not more of an arrogant drama queen to customers. Notice he locked that thread without even allowing a response as well.

 

FS developers are an interesting lot.

 

You can always open a thread over there and ask all the questions you want, if not why complaining that his thread is locked?

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Go to NickN's forums and read his so called "fsx bible" , more like "fsx diatribe". Calls out devs for not doing things his way, calls out users for modifying fsx.cfg. He does throw in some useful info, but it is clearly a document written by someone who feels threatened. This is even more clear after his Ftxg/Gex post.

 

For all the shortcomings we point out about JV's behavior, NickN has crossed the line.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

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Go to NickN's forums and read his so called "fsx bible" , more like "fsx diatribe". Calls out devs for not doing things his way, calls out users for modifying fsx.cfg. He does throw in some useful info, but it is clearly a document written by someone who feels threatened. This is even more clear after his Ftxg/Gex post. For all the shortcomings we point out about JV's behavior, NickN has crossed the line. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

+1

 

I'm not keen on either gentleman's bedside manner, but I agree with above.  Nick has come across as feeling threatened, and almost with a sense of entitlement (not to have competition), in his thread at F1.

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Go to NickN's forums and read his so called "fsx bible" , more like "fsx diatribe". Calls out devs for not doing things his way, calls out users for modifying fsx.cfg. He does throw in some useful info, but it is clearly a document written by someone who feels threatened. This is even more clear after his Ftxg/Gex post. For all the shortcomings we point out about JV's behavior, NickN has crossed the line. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Well, if you have been around long enough you will find many who have, well as you put it "crossed the line". I have seen many on these forums over the years say something that they regret later. I would like to point out that sometimes passion gets in the way. I have no doubt that Nick has a lot of passion as it shows in his projects as well as his willingness to help just about anyone. He has gone out of his way for individuals (including myself) as well as hours and hours of docs to help the community. I think we just let this float for awhile.

 

Bob


Officially retired

 

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What a spoiled sport.  He's right that FTX Global, and probably openLC, change the landclass lookup table, but that's only in an effort to improve on what FSX gave us. 

 

In order to have really good and accurate scenery you need realistic high quality textures, accurate landclass, and a landclass lookup table that associates the right textures with the right landclass type.

 

Thank God for developers like ORBX.

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