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regisb

FSX code, PMDG evolving...We need an upgrade of FSX

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We should start a petition for Microsoft to release the FSX core engine code so that someone smart as PMDG improves this to take advantage of the new computers in today's day and age.

 

It is just not acceptable to continue this way...

 

 

We all sim community should ask for the code to be released so that in good faith it is improved.

 

 

Microsoft can only gain in doing this...

 

 

Thanks,

Regis (A ###### off pilot)

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It will never happen.

Bill Gates was the Flight Simulator patron, and unless he digs out the cash to start a new one,it's dead.

It's P3D or X-Plane,and maybe Outerra in the distant future.

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"Microsoft can only gain from this..."  Yeah they already gained by already doing what you said, sold it to Lockheed Martin, ever heard of Prepar3D.  Its the FSX code tweaked and reworked for their needs.  Do you think they are just going to 'give' away the code for free just so it can be better.  I'm sure they would 'give' it to PMDG if they had the money and willing to drop it on the binary.

 

Now let this not start a P3D/FSX/PMDG war.

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We should start a petition for Microsoft to release the FSX core engine code so that someone smart as PMDG improves this to take advantage of the new computers in today's day and age.

 

It is just not acceptable to continue this way...

 

 

We all sim community should ask for the code to be released so that in good faith it is improved.

 

 

Microsoft can only gain in doing this...

 

 

Thanks,

Regis (A ###### pilot)

 

I agree but I know it's not going to happen. 

Mr. Gates please please lol

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How many petitions have already been started for this with no results?

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Yeah they already gained by already doing what you said, sold it to Lockheed Martin, ever heard of Prepar3D.

 

They bought the code for Microsoft ESP, not FSX.  Separate products, really.  Common misconception of simmers everywhere.  Nobody ever heard of ESP because FSX was available to the casual simmer.  ESP is what sim makers like RedBird used in their simulators.  They now use P3D.

 

They just canned FSX.

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Microsoft would benefit from releasing the FSX (for hobby) code if they put a condition saying that the code must only be implemented in a Windows based or Microsoft original Operating System. And they could release it to a consortia of developers, also maintaining a position (at no cost) in the consortia. 

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Just saying....don't shoot the messenger

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  I agree with the Topic starter and would think the way computer tech is going, someone would benefit with the upgrades.

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Microsoft can only gain in doing this...

 

Personally I would not presume to say what Microsoft can and cannot gain from anything frankly.

 

That said I feel quite sad about what the future holds for the FS enthusiast. It is true that it is better now than it has ever been. It has certainly never looked so good. However, After following flight sims from nearly the beginning I feel we have been built up only to be let down by Microsoft. I wonder what I will be using to get satisfaction from my hobby in the future. If anything that is.

 

I never installed flight as I am not remotely interested. My aviation interest is that of heavy civil aircraft. It is this that I feel is somewhat threatened. I would love to know what PMDG think will be the future regarding this area of flight simulation. It seems that their products and development ties perfectly with my particular passion within this strange world of FS we visit in our spare time.

 

Microsoft is a business after all and they obviously feel flight simulator in it's previous form is not economically viable.

 

At the moment we can only wonder and speculate at best but fingers crossed eh?

 

Regards

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Google Prepar3d V2. Your wish has come true, at least in a couple of months it will.

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Microsoft can only gain in doing this...

How, exactly?

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Personally I would not presume to say what Microsoft can and cannot gain from anything frankly.
 
That said I feel quite sad about what the future holds for the FS enthusiast. It is true that it is better now than it has ever been. It has certainly never looked so good. However, After following flight sims from nearly the beginning I feel we have been built up only to be let down by Microsoft. I wonder what I will be using to get satisfaction from my hobby in the future. If anything that is.

 

Agreed - on both points.

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Much has been made about how the core of FSX has issues with being 32 bit, not being designed to utilize multiple cores, not being designed to take full advantage of modern GPU's etc etc etc... Which really makes me wonder how much of FSX could really even be used going forward as it sounds like FS needs a 'from the ground up' rework. That's a question for highly experienced programmers to answer.

I wish someone could get Google interested in such a thing. They have the global satellite mapping, the money, the programming prowess and they would really annoy Bill Gates and Microsoft by doing so.

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Google gave-up on many projects (early on the stage of commercialization though) because the concepts were not going to produce expected returns. Google Health is just one. I thought it had tremendous commercial future.

So, Maybe Google would not pursue this niche market.

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Microsoft could generate a lot of goodwill by open-sourcing FSX. If MS is not going to be in the FS market anymore, what would be the downside for them? FSX is the only thing that keeps a Windows computer in my house. My laptop runs Linux, my wife uses an Ipad and her next laptop will be a Macbook. X-Plane and FlightGear will run on Linux or Mac.

 

Come on MS, put it on CodePlex. Please.  :Praying:

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Microsoft could generate a lot of goodwill by open-sourcing FSX. If MS is not going to be in the FS market anymore, what would be the downside for them? FSX is the only thing that keeps a Windows computer in my house. My laptop runs Linux, my wife uses an Ipad and her next laptop will be a Macbook. X-Plane and FlightGear will run on Linux or Mac.

 

Come on MS, put it on CodePlex. Please.  :Praying:

 

You may have answered the question to yourself. 

 

If it is the reason it keeps you using a windows pc then it has value to them.

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If it is the reason it keeps you using a windows pc then it has value to them

 

But they are not maintaining the code, so that's a depreciating value at best. By open-sourcing, the community maintains the code and the value does not depreciate.

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Prepar3D V2 I don't know it's what 10-200 dollars per month?! That's insane... But maybe Mr. Randazzo could charm offense them into making a retail one time payment edition for us geeks...  :rolleyes:

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They bought the code for Microsoft ESP, not FSX.  Separate products, really.  Common misconception of simmers everywhere.

 

ESP is based on FSX SP2 - Phil Taylor confirmed this.  Technically separate products, but for all intense an purposes they are the same (most likely just the DRM checking and perhaps a few other logo specific copyrighted stuff removed).

 

LM have taken FSX SP2/ESP and modified it ... what has me curious is at what point does the ESP become a significantly "different" product such that it is not bound by any contracts with Microsoft?  Once LM change enough source code is it legally bound to Microsoft any more?  No this IS NOT A EULA debate (so please please please don't bring it up or else this thread will get shutdown quickly) ... I'm just curious at what point does an application code set legally become a new and different product?

 

As far as giving away the source code (FSX SP2), seems very unlikely given they sold almost the same code to LM for an undisclosed amount.  LM wouldn't be too happy to see the source code available for free.  But it does beg the question, what if Boeing for example decided they wanted to buy ESP from Microsoft ... if Microsoft didn't sell it to Boeing, could they get into a legal battle with Boeing?

 

I would love to see an open source FSX SP2 but just not going to happen ... and if it did happen how would you keep the source code "aligned"?  Meaning, every 3rd party developer would want to change something in the source code to make their product work better ... it's already being done to a lesser degree (Orbx for example).  It would lead to an ever increasing conflict of FSX core versions and 3rd party vendor versions ... can you imagine just how much more difficult it would be for an end user to make FSX Open Source work?

 

There would need to be some type of consortium for FSX Open Source -- a group that manages changes in the product versions.  Given how 3rd party vendors of FSX are "sometimes" of the idea "my way or the highway", it would be a very difficult bunch to wrangle together in a single unified positive direction.

 

Rob.

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Prepar3D V2 I don't know it's what 10-200 dollars per month?!

Well, I don't know about V2, but the only license with a monthly fee is the DEV one. The two other options are one time fees. One for 49.95$ (Academic License), the other for 200$ (Commercial license).

Pretty good value for money, really.

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LM wouldn't be too happy to see the source code available for free.

 

Could be, but then again they may not care. LM's customers want a professional product with professional support, they don't want a community developed open source product. There are many examples of commercial products built on open source code (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_open-source_applications).

 

 

 


There would need to be some type of consortium for FSX Open Source -- a group that manages changes in the product versions.  Given how 3rd party vendors of FSX are "sometimes" of the idea "my way or the highway", it would be a very difficult bunch to wrangle together in a single unified positive direction.

 

Yup, just like we have today with Linux. As you say, third parties are extending FSX with their own code and creating incompatibilities between addons. So we're headed in that direction regardless because the framework of FSX is not evolving to meet all the demands of developers.

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Google Prepar3d V2. Your wish has come true, at least in a couple of months it will.

Not really, Prepar3d unless their licencing model has changed drastically it is a commercial only product, thus not intended to be used by the casual home simmer!

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There are many examples of commercial products built on open source code

 

From the article you linked, I'm not seeing any example of open source applications that are similar to FSX?  Closest I see is id Software, that was just the core engine and not the most current engine.  FSX has an SDK it must support ... this SDK is KEY to it's longevity.   All of those examples listed are not close in scope to what FSX does.

 

 

 

Open Source for entertainment software is simply too "open" and commercially not viable ... I don't think many of us have the "free time" to really put that kind of effort into what amounts to nothing in return other than a pat on the back and/or thank you (and we're talking many 1000's of hours of work).

 

I like the idea of open source, it would be perfect in a world where no one had any mortgages, bills, kids going to college, and food and energy were free.  But that's not the world we currently live in ... most of us need a marketable revenue source. 

 

 

Not really, Prepar3d unless their licencing model has changed drastically it is a commercial only product, thus not intended to be used by the casual home simmer!

 

This thread will get locked quickly if you continue down this path ... maybe that's your goal, not sure, but just an FYI.

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Why reinvent the wheel? there's already a long-established free, open source flight simulator. It's called Flightgear.

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