The Mindstar GNS 430/530 will not ship with any valid AIRAC cycle whatsoever and the purpose of that is to FORCE you to subscribe into a RealNav subscription.

How is Mindstar FORCEING you to buy anything - at gun point? You have the choice. As I said, if you don't want it don't buy it.

Ok... maybe I'm bad at math... I could be... but please, tell me where I've figured it out incorrectly......

 

In an aircraft that has a single GNS unit here's your cost:

 

Reality-XP GNS unit: $50, no updatable nav database.
Mindstar GNS unit: $50, updatable nav database for additional $40 annual ($3.33 per month).

Total cost
Reality-XP: $50
Mindstar: $90

 

In an aircraft that has dual 430 GNS units here's your cost:

 

Reality-XP GNS unit: $50, no updatable nav database.
Reality-XP GNS Expansion pack: $100
Mindstar GNS unit: $50, updatable nav database for additional $40 annual ($3.33 per month).

Total cost
Reality-XP: $150
Mindstar: $90

 

In an aircraft that has both a 430 and a 530 unit:

 

Reality-XP GNS 430: $50, no updatable nav database.
Reality-XP GNS 530: $50, no updatable nav database.
Reality-XP Expansion pack: $100
Mindstar GNS 430 and 530: $50, updatable nav database for additional $40 annual ($3.33 per month).

Total cost
Reality-XP: $200
Mindstar: $90

 

I really fail to see how our pricing is unreasonable.  I know that a great many of you have Navigraph or NavDataPro subscriptions for other addons.  However, there is no GNS addon available that either of those subscription sources supports and in fact, aside from the Reality-XP offerings there are no other GNS addons at all (well, unless you talk G1000 which is actually more than just a GNS).  Neither of those data sources provide enough information in their data tables to present accurate data for these GNS units.  I've explained that several times now, and it's been pretty much ignored or dismissed.  While the RealNav cycle is only quarterly for $40, it's still cheaper on a monthly basis than Navigraph and keeps your units current enough for fair usage online.  The Navigraph cost is $6.62 (assuming 4.90 euro) per month which is twice the cost of the RealNav.  Yes, I realize that nothing else uses the RealNav data, however that's not something RealNav can control.  Access to RealNav is available to third party developers, if they're interested.

 

If you chose to not utilize the RealNav database subscription, then the Mindstar units will function with the default base sim nav database.

One thing is for certain here- the fact that everyone is so leery of the RealNav scenario shows that there is big interest in the GNS itself and that people are likely more than willing to go for the Mindstar product.  It just comes with a huge shadow looming over it that is rather unattractive to those would be buyers.

 

Matthias- I still don't believe what is happening here is as underhanded as you suggest.  Again, it was implied that the GNS package alone would come with data albeit not the most current.  How old exactly has not been explicitly indicated though.  One cycle old?  Three cycles?  A year old?  I am 99% sure it will ship with something but exactly what no one knows at this moment. There is truth in the fact that this product would force you to buy a product from a related company should you choose to go for that option.  I do admit that it is a bit of a shock to see that one of the features most boasted about is the ability to finally update the navdata comes with the caveat of having to get that data essentially from them and them only rather than the other providers we are already using and familiar with.

 

One thing remains sure though, and that to get people to subscribe to this, the GNS has got to be one amazing indispensable bit of kit and Mindstar will have to prove that before they start selling any in great numbers along with their subscriptions.  

 

In addition, if I am honest- I don't care for the repeated mention that Mindstar is a commercial training supplier and that this home market isn't important***.  This unimportant home market is enough to keep some other add on developers afloat on its own and further more is dealt with on a more personal level.  I think it slightly unwise to devalue your potential customers 'to their faces' so to speak.  Because in all honesty, if that is how you are thinking of this customer base, how is YOUR support going to be?  Everyone is upset with RXP for being less than friendly and then disappearing but thus far I am not seeing much out of Mindstar that is leaps and bounds better.  And don't get me wrong, I understand defending your product in this forum when people have attempted to shoot holes in it and that is completely fair.  Just remember that $50 you are asking for is coming out of someone's personal bank account of their hard earned money, not out of a business account with a budget for these things (and will likely result in making more money for said business).  Many people will be having to choose between your product and a nice dinner or a new movie or so on.

 

I apologize if I am coming off as a trouble maker or something.  I am not trying to be a thorn in any one's side and I am certainly not making conspiracy accusations.  I am only trying to raise legitimate concerns that affect me and likely others.

 

***'Unimportant' is my word, not Mindstar's.  I believe, with out going back through four pages, that the term used was something like 'drop in the bucket' and that may not have come from Ed himself but rather the OP.  Please take that for what it's worth.

Mindstar Aviation's primary business is commercial products for flight training.  It's what drives and controls our products.

 

What that means for the home user is that any feature implementation is based strictly on the impact/viability, etc of that with regards to real world training.  We will not add unrealistic features nor will we risk breaking the current product to do something 'different'.  (whatever that might be, I dunno )

 

We're offering these units up to the home user because we were given the impression people might want them as an alternative to the only other GNS offering out there.  Thus our expectations are simple... if someone wants it, they'll buy it... if they don't, they won't.  We're ok with that.   Just don't trash it because you don't want it... that's not fair nor is it right.

did I read correctly that you have to need a subscription to get the addon working because no navdata is included in the gns addon ?

or is the included navdata just out of date ?

did I read correctly that you have to need a subscription to get the addon working because no navdata is included in the gns addon ?

or is the included navdata just out of date ?

 

Ed answered that already:

 

If you chose to not utilize the RealNav database subscription, then the Mindstar units will function with the default base sim nav database.

What is the "default base sim nav database."?

 

Will Mindstar Garmin be considering single cycle (current) Airac Navdata sales also?

Ed answered that already:

 

so if i understand correctly its the navdata from microsoft anno 2005/2006 ?

 

aka the same navdata the ms fsx default gps is using ?

so if i understand correctly its the navdata from microsoft anno 2005/2006 ?

 

Seem like that's it.

 

However you could update sim nav data: http://www.aero.sors.fr/navaids3.html

Not tested this myself, but looks good.

Seem like that's it.

 

However you could update sim nav data: http://www.aero.sors.fr/navaids3.html

Not tested this myself, but looks good.

 

So, the default Navdata would not be an actual Airac Cycle?

Correct.  There is no default RealNav database installed with purchase of the gauges alone.  The gauges will use the default data that is part of the base sim (FS/P3D).

 

Purchasing an updatable database is not required to use the gauges, despite what some were thinking.  However, to utilize the newer database a RealNav purchase is required as we cannot ship a version of the RealNav database (no matter how out of date) with the gauge.

 

The RealNav offering is there and it is the only other database option we can legitimately offer for business reasons.

 

Many of you won't like this, and that's fine.  We do understand.  However as a business we have decisions and restrictions we must deal with that simply aren't for public discussion.  It is what it is.

I've read through this entire thread, I understand all the various viewpoints and opinions from all the different members who have commented.

 

Navigraph and Aerosoft have a firm grasp on the tubeliner side of the hobby regarding navigational data for their and other's addons, but on the GA side of the hobby we've been left flapping in the breeze with outdated data used on the RXP units.

 

Mindstar seems to fill that gap, so for us primarily GA flyers I think this is a good thing.

 

I'm more than happy to pay $40 a year for updated Navdata, and look forward to the release of the 530 and 430 Mindstar units.

 

The only concern I have is integration into existing addons, and would like to know if Mindstar has a way forward for panel integration in the style of RXP.

 

The only concern I have is integration into existing addons, and would like to know if Mindstar has a way forward for panel integration in the style of RXP.

 

The only 'style' I ever knew of with regards to Reality-XP were that it would create a new panel window with their GNS unit in it.  I really don't see how that's very useful in the long run as it doesn't address the VC and if the window is NEVER opened the gauge doesn't initialize.  Perhaps I am unaware of some brilliant piece of coding that was created at some point??  If so, please explain. :biggrin:

The only 'style' I ever knew of with regards to Reality-XP were that it would create a new panel window with their GNS unit in it. I really don't see how that's very useful in the long run as it doesn't address the VC and if the window is NEVER opened the gauge doesn't initialize. Perhaps I am unaware of some brilliant piece of coding that was created at some point?? If so, please explain. :biggrin:

I mean a 3D representation in the VC.

 

With RXP units, they have to be turned on like any other gauge, but there is no requirement to open them in a second window (or do you mean popup gauge?).

 

I'll happily throw my RXP units in the virtual dustbin of my storage HDD knowing that I can integrate your units into the VC of my virtual hangar (as long as I can fit them in).

What is 'integrated' isn't up to Reality-XP at all.  The 3D model is a hard-coded design created by the aircraft addon developer and it is completely and totally up to said developer to support or not support integration of another third party's gauge(s).

 

Yes, I was referring to the popup windows that the RXP panel configuration utility would create for an aircraft you select.