By now, all of this may well have become a moot issue.

I'll take your moot and raise it an eyebrow. :blink:

 

Anyway, I've explained exactly why Mindstar has chosen to use RealNav.  Yes, RealNav is affiliated with Mindstar (has some common owners*).  RealNav as a separate business entity is not weird, subversive or somehow shady and underhanded.  It is a very normal thing to set up separate business entities for financial protection between the two commercial interests.  It was also a requirement to be able to license the data from Lufthansa Systems.  The reasons Mindstar went looking for navigational data instead of using Navigraph or NavDataPro are as follows:

 

1. NavDataPro literally didn't exist at the time.  Yes, the 430/530 has been around and in use for training longer than NavDataPro.
2. Navigraph data was woefully incomplete as well as inaccurate, especially in the GA realm of navigational data.
3. Neither NavDataPro nor Navigraph's database can be used in a commercial environment, nor is it certifiable for training.

Given those reasons, Mindstar had to find a better source.  Well, none existed.  When a company needs something that doesn't exist, they have to create it themselves.  Thus RealNav.

 

The fact that I have to explain any of that above does not speak well of the flight sim community.  This rampant assault on the integrity of an addon developer by insinuating there's something evil, criminal or otherwise duplicitous in the developer's business decisions is an ongoing behavior pattern that really does not do the community any favors.

 

I want to be honest about something.  We (Mindstar) didn't say "Hey, let's release this to the FS community.  We'll make a fortune!!".  Our business is strictly flight training environment only with one exception, the Mindstar G1000 which is already available to the FS community.  We also have the following:

• Avidyne simulations for multiple aircraft.
• ProLine 21 simulations for multiple aircraft.
• Multiple GA-level autopilots like STEC 55's etc.

None of those are likely to ever reach the FS community, for lots of reasons that I won't go into.  I just want to point out, this GNS release isn't about wanting to grab tons of FS user's incomes.  We believed that the FS community was seeking an alternative to what was available in the GNS range and thought that our 430/530 combination would be a welcome addition.

 

Apparently we were dead wrong, based on the overall response in this thread.

 

*Apparently someone thinks exactly one person owns Mindstar Aviation as well as RealNav.  It isn't true and just like a lot of LLCs all of the owners are not public information.

The fact that I have to explain any of that above does not speak well of the flight sim community.

I must agree. Mindstar has its business model. Those who don't like it don't have to buy into it. It's really simple.

 

The fact that I have to explain any of that above does not speak well of the flight sim community.

 

while I agree with most of what you said, please don't insult the whole flight sim community just because of a few people ...

those bad people are everywhere and you don't go out and insult everyone just because of a few.

Well the prospect of a good GNS unit that would work in P3D definitely got my interest and enthusiasm.

 

However, after reading this thread and seeing how it's been handled, I think I'll give this one a miss.

@Ed

 

Would you ever consider making guages for X-Plane? A working GNS unit for X-Plane is badly needed

Well the prospect of a good GNS unit that would work in P3D definitely got my interest and enthusiasm.

 

However, after reading this thread and seeing how it's been handled, I think I'll give this one a miss.

 

Ah, only 7 pages in and somebody finally mentioned P3D again - not bad, considering this is the P3D forum!

 

Cheers

Jack

@Ed

 

Would you ever consider making guages for X-Plane? A working GNS unit for X-Plane is badly needed

 

In short, no.

With all due respect, WarpD, it seems like you are taking the controversial comments of one user, Brigowski, from several pages back, and then lumping all the rest of the very valid questions about the data (that will be provided with the base units) in with that, to discredit the flightsim "community", whatever that is. Maybe I missed some posts along the way, but I don't see what the problem is with people pressing the question about whether 50 bucks is going to get them a working Airac cycle, or if they are going to have to spend 90.    I happen to be very interested in your gauges for use in the upcoming P3Dv2, and continue to be interested, but I think some of your last statement was overly defensive, especially, (to paraphrase) the  "we thought this would be a welcome addition for the FS community but apparently we were dead wrong" part. 

I really feel for developers who depend on the flight sim community for the success of their products, not to mention their income in some cases. It's no wonder developers are closing shop almost weekly.

With all due respect, WarpD, it seems like you are taking the controversial comments of one user, Brigowski, from several pages back, and then lumping all the rest of the very valid questions about the data (that will be provided with the base units) in with that, to discredit the flightsim "community", whatever that is. Maybe I missed some posts along the way, but I don't see what the problem is with people pressing the question about whether 50 bucks is going to get them a working Airac cycle, or if they are going to have to spend 90.

 

I was in the middle of my own post when I saw this one pop up and it describes my thoughts perfectly.

I am praying that someone will lock this thread.

With all due respect, WarpD, it seems like you are taking the controversial comments of one user, Brigowski, from several pages back, and then lumping all the rest of the very valid questions about the data (that will be provided with the base units) in with that, to discredit the flightsim "community", whatever that is. Maybe I missed some posts along the way, but I don't see what the problem is with people pressing the question about whether 50 bucks is going to get them a working Airac cycle, or if they are going to have to spend 90.

With all due repect to you, why don't you just buy one subscription and then choose to never update the product again? Even then, you'll have spent only $90 for 2 gauges, crossfill, and a complete nav database that you can use indefinitely and get free upgrades to gauge functionality, like WAAS. That's still a bargain.

 

And I also don't understand what you don't understand about Ed's repeated statements that they cannot legally include a Navdata cycle with the gauges.

 

Todd

This thread is, for the most part, of constructive value.

Now that everything that can be said, including a lot of what should never have been said to begin with, it's time to lock this thread.

 

Until and unless these units are actually put on sale, there's little point in further discussion.