It was easy, as the PMDG 777 does just that.

To add, almost every updatable plane addon I own came with a current set of data. So if you had a Wilco 737, a CS 757 or the iFly or NGX 737s, they all weren't dated back to the beginning of FSX. I think even some utilities like Aivlasoft EFB came with recent data right out of the box. And special planes like the F1 Mustang even received WAAS updates for quite some time. For free.

 

By this.

I wish there was an option like $15 more and that it would release with a more or less non dated nav data.

I only need 1 nav cycle and it would be cheaper than buying a subscription.

Agreed. Good point. Might even turn out as a win-win scenario since the non-subscriber happy folks get on board with a single cycle offer. Building a customer base.

I don't think that I would put it like that regarding a few points, Matthias. Still, agreement with some.

 

Well, the best and fairest thing to do would indeed be to wait for some customer reviews. Todd, which is a customer already, is happy about the service. Now we have to wait for some inputs marking the quality, stability and all the rest. The facts on who owns what and why.. well, lets leave that to the readers. I hope it got a bit clearer though.

 

The data comparison, in my eyes, is still open.

 

Side note. I didn't expect Aerosoft to be happy or positive about some new nav data competition. Same as I wouldn't expect Navigraph to be happy. But I saw M. Kok pointing out the price points of both available products and I'd say that this should be a heads-up when it comes to placing the Mindstar/Realnav combo in the market. By this, a single cycle one-time payment like you and Lusche suggested indeed sounds like a good idea.

 

 

To add, almost every updatable plane addon I own came with a current set of data. So if you had a Wilco 737, a CS 757 or the iFly or NGX 737s, they all weren't dated back to the beginning of FSX. I think even some utilities like Aivlasoft EFB came with recent data right out of the box. And special planes like the F1 Mustang even received WAAS updates for quite some time. For free.

 

F1 has offered WAAS updates for the Mustang because their WAAS support doesn't come from the Navigraph data, even if you subscribe.  And it's US WAAS data (which is freely available) - not Canadian (which costs serious $$), a real issue for us NA flyers, as Canada is upgrading to WAAS rapidly.  Apples to apples if we're going down this road and understand some of what underlies it.  This isn't intended as criticism of F1 BTW.  They've done what they felt they could within their technical and financial constraints for WAAS support.  And hey, if you fly exclusively outside of NA, WAAS is irrelevant to you anyway. :-)

 

Interestingly enough, the only plane I own which offers any sort of data beyond default FSX is the F1 Mustang.  All the rest - GA from RealAir, Milviz, Carenado and so on - either use default data or rely on RXP (or Mindstar, for those that can use the current G1000 product).  Again, let's consider that this is a GA product.

 

Just pointing out that there are a number of ways to slice this.  Personally, I'd bet the package would do better with reasonably up to date data as default (and if that had been done with an initial price a few $$ higher to absorb the cost no one would've been the wiser) but hey... that's just the ex-marketing/product manager in me and an under-informed opinion. 

 

In the end, these price arguments are always pointless, lacking information that only the developer can and does know.  If it's too high, it won't catch on and the developer will have to lower the price or will simply move on to something else, deeming it not profitable.  The price for the gauge plus data for a year is $90.  We'll all make a purchase decision based on value/dollar based on that, and all the rest is noise and angst.  I frankly don't care if the nav data money goes to Mindstar, Mindstar's owner's Aunt Martha or somebody's dog.

 

RIght now, I still don't have enough information to judge the value yet.  Some have already done so one way or another.  And some seem to be on some strange mission that I truly don't understand - and I don't say that to be provocative.  I honestly don't get it.  But in this case, I'd rather no one tries to help me understand.  :-)

 

Scott

I like the one current cycle, no subscription, $65 suggestion from above

And some seem to be on some strange mission that I truly don't understand - and I don't say that to be provocative.  I honestly don't get it.  But in this case, I'd rather no one tries to help me understand.

The "strange mission(s)" are unwelcome from this point forwards.

1. Mindstar can not legally provide a copy of the RealNav database without a corresponding subscription.  It is what it is and it's not going to change, move on.

2. Mindstar's units are used in real world training and as such can not be paired with a database source that can not legally be used for training.  That would be both Navigraph as well as NavDataPro.  Neither are licensed for training use.  Changing the GNS units to use those databases would open up a massive can of legal worms.  That isn't going to happen, move on.

 

Regarding current nav data with an addon... when I approached Navigraph for the Eaglesoft Citation X... Navigraph gave me a very specific copy of the database to distribute with the aircraft for installation.  It was way out of date.  It was and still is the only version of the database that addon can be sold with.  If other addon vendors are shipping with the very latest, I have to wonder why they would be given a different "deal".

I really have held back from using the "Threat of Closure" warning, but a few of the most recent posts are coming very close to harassment and abusive in nature. Please, cool down the conspiracy theories and rhetoric. Thus now this thread is so listed for possible closure.

 

Thanks in advance for cooperation. Let's keep this thread on track shall we?

Meanwhile....

 

A2A Cessna 172 with Mindstar GNS 530:

 

 

 

A2A Cessna 172 with Mindstar GNS 430:

 

 

Todd

 

 

Ed, I'm looking forward to buying these new units when they become available simply so I can quickly provide full VC integration for the B55 E/B and C310R aircraft, and any future aircraft that will use GNS530/430 units.

 

That will certainly catch my attention to take a close look.  Those are two of the most used aircraft in my hangar(s).

Posted Today, 03:04 PM

JetFueler, on 15 Oct 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

However, hearing that the units won't ship with ANY AIRAC at all... yikes... It is going to essentially be a default GPS unless I shell out an additional $40? No thanks.

 

Is this a correct statement?

 

Posted Today, 03:30 PM

ohsirus, on 15 Oct 2013 - 3:04 PM, said:

Is this a correct statement?

No, it is not.

 

yet from one page earlier:

 

 

If you chose to not utilize the RealNav database subscription, then the Mindstar units will function with the default base sim nav database.

 

I know I am posting this at great risk but I feel that this needs to be pointed out.  I don't know if I am considered one of the people on a 'strange mission' here, but regardless, my 'mission' has only been to uncover enough information to make an educated purchase decision.  Like I said before, I don't care who owns who or who's selling what.  What I want to know is what will I get for my money and just how much money do I need to spend.  It took six pages before all of the relevant information came out during which time there was a lot of confusion.  Now as far as I am concerned, I have made my decision- a decision in the end that is really irrelevant here.  What is relevant is caveat emptor and I don't think you can really fault people for wanting as much information as they can get.  

 

I apologize if I have come off as though I am one of the people 'harassing' here as that was not my intentions.  I know better than that.  My profile may say that I signed up three years ago but I have been here for well over a decade.  I've developed my own work for FS, some of which is available here.  I respect developers.  But one has to admit that there has been a lot of misleading statements and information here that needed to be pieced together to get what as best I can tell is the truth.  Some of us aren't trying to expose people for what ever reason... we just want straight answers, nothing more.

Who has been misleading, JetFueler? Exactly what "misleading statements" are you referring to? Questions are, and have been, welcomed and encouraged. I think both Ed and myself have been very forthright.

 

Todd

Who has been misleading, JetFueler? Exactly what "misleading statements" are you referring to? Questions are, and have been, welcomed and encouraged. I think both Ed and myself have been very forthright.

 

Todd

 

Well, the example I cited just above for starters.  There seems to have been some degree of run around (whether deliberate or not) regarding the role the RealNav subscription was going to play.  Unless I am misunderstanding things, I am getting that if I buy the GNS product, I will not get a RealNav cycle with it as cryptically states in the message at the top of these pages as well as in another post Ed made.  The unit will be function on 'base sim nav database' which is a term I've never head before but sounds like the default nav info in FSX/P3D.  That in and of itself is something I believe should have been put out in the open from the get go.  If you go back and read the questions and the responses, there are not a lot of real straight forward responses that convey the reality of the situation.

 

 Again, whether deliberately or not, there have been things left out that while doesn't make the answers untrue, can still be misleading.  Like the price point discussion where for $50 you get a 430 and a 530 with cross fill.  What you don't get is this super awesome AIRAC with it.  You can get a subscription to update your database but it took forever for it to come to light that nothing shipped with the GNS itself even though there were several people, myself included, that were under the impression that at least an outdated cycle would ship with the GNS.  This misconception was quite clear but never actively addressed until pushed for more info at which point apparently we became abusive.

 

And from my personal opinion, when you say questions are welcome and encouraged yet Ed came right out and said he doesn't care if we buy it or not is a bit of a contradiction.  This point isn't really tied into the specifics of the service being offered but does illustrate some of the mood that has overshadowed some of this thread. And remember it is easy when you know the answers already and are trying to explain it to us but we don't know.  We are unfamiliar with it and have a lot of questions that have at times been met with conflicting answers.  Want another example?  How about how this product can only use the RealNav data because it is the only data detailed enough for the GNS.  Mean while it comes out that the GNS won't ship with any RealNav data at all!  Yet it can still function on this base sim nav database.  Huh?  But I thought it needed RealNav... I'm not trying to expose anyone or cry conspiracy, I'm just confused!  I just want to understand what I am paying for.

 

I am sure others will back me up when I say from the new consumer end, the information given has been neither consistent nor concise.  That is from our point of view which lacks the background you and Ed have with this program.  What you have (mostly...) is some confused people trying to make heads or tails of what is being offered here.  I agree that there has been one or two that seemed to have a different agenda, one which I don't see the point in personally and as such I'd rather not discuss that beyond saying that's them, not me and I don't care about what's at the end of what ever street that is heading down.

 

Really, this is a promising product that I would really like to have but before I throw down my $50 (or $90?!?) for it, I want to know what it does and doesn't do.  Does it do any sort of VNAV?  I still don't know... about all I've learned is that it does't drive the GS needle.  TOD? no idea.  I also know it doesn't do terrain avoidance but I recently saw that it does do terrain mapping?  I was told earlier that it didn't do roads or lakes but now I am being led to believe that it will present the default terrain mapping?  I think... about 70% sure I am understanding that right.  You see what I am trying to get at here?  Most of the people here aren't out to get you, they just want to know what they are getting as your customers.  Help them, and myself out a little by being more cut and dry with the info rather than misleading and acting like you don't care if we buy or we don't.

I think all this stuff will get clear when the unit is made available.  We're just spinning wheels at this point. I do hope it comes with some data, though.

several people, myself included, that were under the impression that at least an outdated cycle would ship with the GNS

Where did you get that impression from?

1. Mindstar can not legally provide a copy of the RealNav database without a corresponding subscription.  It is what it is and it's not going to change, move on.

2. Mindstar's units are used in real world training and as such can not be paired with a database source that can not legally be used for training.  That would be both Navigraph as well as NavDataPro.  Neither are licensed for training use.  Changing the GNS units to use those databases would open up a massive can of legal worms.  That isn't going to happen, move on.

 

Regarding current nav data with an addon... when I approached Navigraph for the Eaglesoft Citation X... Navigraph gave me a very specific copy of the database to distribute with the aircraft for installation.  It was way out of date.  It was and still is the only version of the database that addon can be sold with.  If other addon vendors are shipping with the very latest, I have to wonder why they would be given a different "deal".

Ed,

 

Thanks for continuing to compete in the entertainment section of the market place. The ever dwindling number of developers in this business sector concerns me greatly. I can only imagine that the emotional content of this community must be very different from the business of real world training.

 

Unknown if I will purchase your product (if I do buy a GPS add-on, it will be Mindstar), but again, thanks for licensing your advanced real world products for use on my humble home simulator.