Okay, Matthias. You've now made your opinions crystal clear. There is no need now to continue in the same vein. In fact, I strongly encourage you not to do so, lest you risk being perceived as an agent provocateur...

 

...and being treated accordingly. ^_^

 

 

 

 

Oops sorry did not mean to quote you Bill. Weird things happening with my internet today...

Any news on when this will be released? Any chance of a product page with some screenshots, feature list, more info, etc?

Any news on when this will be released? Any chance of a product page with some screenshots, feature list, more info, etc?

+1

If I could just say something here...

 

I've had the pleasure of helping to test this product for the folks at Mindstar. Ed and everybody else I've talked to have been extremely nice, both as people and to work with. There's no need for the personal insults being thrown around (by a very small number of members) accusing them of having altering motives etc. it's just not needed.

 

The old saying of if you have nothing nice to say, don't say it applies here. Especially when it's not backed up by facts. Regardless of if you think the product is right for you or not, common courtesy goes a long way in this little community

 

Lee

Hi Todd,

 

I'm sorry that you find my statements offensive. I'm not familiar with Mindstar or their products and until I see more of this GNS 430/530 in the form of screenshots or video, it might as well be vaporware. You obviously have an intimate knowledge that allows you to see things from a different prespective.

 

The fact that you started this thread announcing a release that has now not taken place as announced unfortunately adds to my overall scepticism.

 

To strengthen my previous statement of feeling that Mindstar and RealNav are the same company, something that seems to be being treated like a closely guarded secret here, at least this is how I feel, I have done some research and discovered that both Mindstar Aviation and RealNav are registered at:

 

8300 Boone Blvd.

Suite 500

Vienna, Virginia 22182

 

Again I apologise of being so suspicious, but I am wary of a product that right now seems to offer nothing different than Navigraph's AIRAC data. You can say it does all you like, but I haven't seen clear cut evidence of this. The simple fact that Mindstar and RealNav are obviously the same company and this isn't openly presented to us here, is in my eyes not very positive. If, as you say, there is no one out to get anyone and no hidden agenda, why is the fact that Mindstar and RealNav are the same company not openly presented to us here?

 

You started this topic titled "Mindstar GNS 430/530 release this Friday" and I have seen nothing to promote a product that is obviously on the verge of release. Nothing to promote this product in an irrevocably positive manner has been done here, all I see is a lot of hot air. While you may not agree with me, I see this from a potential buyer's perspective. When Audi or McDonalds announce a new product to whoever their client base is, you can be sure that they do a better job at promoting as what I have seen here since you started this thread, this is just fact.

 

I would like to add that I take offence to you saying "You're statements are some of the most vile, immature, and ignorant". I have backed up everything that I have said with facts and simple to understand comparisons. And some here seem to live in a society so capricious with race issues, that you see an innocent example as an invitation to jump on the race bandwagon. All I can say is, get a grip!

 

I would like nothing more than a fully functional GNS 430/530 gauge in Prepar3D, many of us have been waiting for a long time. The idea of spending money on a GNS gauge and to then have to subscribe to AIRAC cycles is not attractive. If the Mindstar GNS 430/530 gauge is not released with at least one functional and valid recent AIRAC cycle, then I see this as a big negative. To give you an example, it feels like I get to buy a new Dell laptop without any installed operating system whatsoever. And I don't have the option of buying an operating system, I have to subscribe to one. For the flying that I do I do not need an AIRAC cycle that is totally current, I don't care if it's a few months old, I'm not a commercial user or crazy fanatic. It would be great to be able to buy one AIRAC cycle at a fixed price at a time or a certain number of updates per annum or so, there has to be some choice other than being locked into a 12 month or so subscription.

 

As I say, the information available so far isn't clear. There is no product website up, we have nothing here other than your initial statement of a release date that obvously "went south" as you would say over in the USA.

 

Matthias

 

 

I do believe them when they say that the navigraph products have quite a bit of errors and omissions from their data.  I have seen this myself  for tube liner flying it is good enough since the major airports data is for the most part accurate. Problem is I do mostly GA flying now and want to practice for RW so I would like rear world data.    As far as realdata and mindstar being the same company   that would not bother me by itself but not being honest about it would bother me.  

 

If they are the same company just come out and say it, many people like myself would not mind paying a subscription to keep the data current, at the prices we are talking about here it's a bargin compared to the real world. 

I have no idea if RealNav is a subsidiary of Mindstar or a new company that shares offices with Mindstar, or what. I honestly don't know. What I do know is both Navigraph and Navdata Pro are not adequate for Mindstar's mission of serving the commercial flight sim industry. Missing nav data is huge. Not having WAAS data is a big deal. 

 

So, let's say for argument's sake RealNav is owned by Mindstar (I don't know this). Why would they need to hide it? Matthias acts like some super sleuth that was able to find they share the same suite in Virginia by looking on their respective websites. And based on that finding he's acting like it's an "aha" moment; that he's uncovered a scam (although he failed to pay attention as to why Mindstar uses RealNav navdata). I mean, really Matthias? Perhaps, rather, Mindstar saw the flaws in both Navigraph and Navdata (and there are many), not to mention they both are entertainment-oriented, did not see an affordable alternative for providing a thorough nav database for the commercial marketplace, and thus saw an opportunity to offer such a service. Pretty smart business sense if you ask me.

 

That is how I would see it. Mindstar certainly isn't trying to pull a fast one over on the sim community (whatever that would be).

 

Matthias, what is your beef for trying to discredit Mindstar, anyway? No one is forcing you to buy their products. The announcement snafu is my fault, by the way, and I do sincerely apologize.

 

Todd

I have no idea if RealNav is a subsidiary of Mindstar or a new company that shares offices with Mindstar, or what. I honestly don't know. What I do know is both Navigraph and Navdata Pro are not adequate for Mindstar's mission of serving the commercial flight sim industry. Missing nav data is huge. Not having WAAS data is a big deal. 

 

So, let's say for argument's sake RealNav is owned by Mindstar (I don't know this). Why would they need to hide it? Matthias acts like some super sleuth that was able to find they share the same suite in Virginia by looking on their respective websites. And based on that finding he's acting like it's an "aha" moment; that he's uncovered a scam (although he failed to pay attention as to why Mindstar uses RealNav navdata). I mean, really Matthias? Perhaps, rather, Mindstar saw the flaws in both Navigraph and Navdata (and there are many), not to mention they both are entertainment-oriented, did not see an affordable alternative for providing a thorough nav database for the commercial marketplace, and thus saw an opportunity to offer such a service. Pretty smart business sense if you ask me.

 

That is how I would see it. Mindstar certainly isn't trying to pull a fast one over on the sim community (whatever that would be).

 

Matthias, what is your beef for trying to discredit Mindstar, anyway? No one is forcing you to buy their products. The announcement snafu is my fault, by the way, and I do sincerely apologize.

 

Todd

 

I also don't see what the difference is, or where there is a question of ethics. Mindstar makes a wonderful product with their G1000, and if they have a higher standard in navigation data and they have to seek a source that equals these standards, whether they have interests in the company or not, it helps them to put out a product that they have more confidence in its quality and accuracy.

I know that support for Mindstar products is excellent, and it is obvious to me that their standards of quality are very high.

I have no problem in subscribing to a nav data source that they feel meets their product's needs, as long as the cost is reasonable.

 

 

Missing nav data is huge. Not having WAAS data is a big deal.

 

As a GA guy, the only plane I have that uses Navigraph data is the F1 Mustang.  My understanding is that the US WAAS data for their G1000 implementation comes from Flight1 themselves, not Navigraph (along with other periodic supplemental data updates not provided by Navigraph, which further reinforces the point), and there is no support for the rapidly increasing number of WAAS approaches in Canada at all - I expect due to the cost/digital availability of the Canadian data.  I know that WAAS will not be supported at intro, but the lack of WAAS data alone would be enough to convince me that Navigraph is not the answer for a GA GPS implementation.

 

If you fly GA in North America, WAAS support is a huge deal.

 

Scott

Never had any issues with Mindstar. Quick to respond and IIRC they even list their phone number for support.

Dont try to fly in Northern Africa with Navigraph...or South America.

both Mindstar Aviation and RealNav are registered at:

 

8300 Boone Blvd.

Suite 500

Vienna, Virginia 22182

Why does that matter?

 

All that matters is that Mindstar provides what it's advertised at the advertised price. if you don't want it then don't buy it. It's really as simple as that.

First of all, thanks to the OP for giving a heads-up regarding the Mindstar product launch. It's an alternative, and alternatives are mostly a good thing to have. Even more so when new sim engines arrive.

 

I gave a 'thumbs up' (is it called that way?) for the HU but the more I read, the more I was thinking about looking at the brochure. This isn't necessary a bad thing, but it differs a lot from just a customer reporting somehow objectively. Defensive attitude.

 

By this, I could at least follow the thoughts from Matthias and must say that the reactions towards them didn't always address the actual issues. Ad hominem? I have to thank him for pointing out the source of the gauges and the nav data subscription. I don't think that it's a bad thing at all, but I do wonder why nobody mentioned it beforehand. :mellow:

 

As far as Navigraph data is concerned. There's no point in denying that they serve all updatable addons so far and even some websites at very reasonable prices. I had my data trouble with them in the past but the Aerosoft alternative lead them to take more care of their sources. So now e.g. Jeppesen is on board and I had the impression that their data quality improved. At least, we could already test how much of that is true and how it developed within the last 1 1/2 year or so (Aerosoft product start). Experience vs assumptions. I didn't say promotions.

 

Repeating the RXP efforts, or lack of, doesn't add much. Their service is bad, what service?  ^_^  But I think nobody questions the quality of the gauge integration. Fancy FMC addons can't fly proper DME arcs, that Garmin-RXP-coproduct can for example.

 

Still, I very much welcome the given alternative when it comes to Mindstar gauges. I really applaud to the price range since getting the RXP gauges with cross fill leads you right to 200 Dollars. You then have a few gadgets more (terrain display comes to my mind) but the Mindstar price point is far far below it. Good!

 

As for the connections. I take it as known that e.g. Eaglesoft products involved the works from Bill, WarpD and Mindstar (as an integration option). Again, not a bad thing, but we are not looking at total strangers never having worked together. So, if I may, I do applaud to a tad bit of objectivity which, in my eyes, got planted by the reasonable concerns and points from Matthias for example. :smile:

At no point or time did anyone from Mindstar Aviation announce the release publicly.  While Todd was told we expected to release it last Friday, and while we didn't tell Todd to not say anything about it... it was not something that Mindstar Aviation promised or publicly claimed.

 

As for if Mindstar Aviation and RealNav are the same company.  No, they are most definitely not the same company.  While both Mindstar Aviation and RealNav are owned by some of the same individuals, there is indeed a legal separation between the two for business requirements and needs.

 

I addressed the reason why we can not support either Navigraph or NavDataPro in a prior post.  These are not small issues, nor is the fact that neither Navigraph nor NavDataPro provide WAAS-type approaches in their databases.  While we do not have our WAAS functionality in place yet, it is being worked on and we hope to have it functional in the near future.

 

The RealNav data source for the raw navigational data is Lufthansa Systems (not Lufthansa, though they are owned by some of the same people) and it is the exact same raw format that is provided to airlines and other agencies that create navigation databases for aircraft and other systems that require such information.

I stopped reading, and any interest in this product left when I read about the need for Real Nav Data vs. Navigraph.

 

Maybe if I ever transition to P3D, I would consider this product as it would be the only option at that point, but not until.