There are tons and tons of airports missing from Navigraph. If you fly anything but tubeliners, you will find many omissions.

Working out some last minute details... like decent instructions, and perhaps an instructional video, on how to install the GNS units into an aircraft for one.

 

Perfectly reasonable things, that customers would expect......

 

but I'm surprised a notification that the product would be released onFriday was sanctioned, if those things weren't created and ready to roll.

 

I doubt I will go for these.  I see nothing that RXP doesn't already give me (that appeals to me).   The point about RXP (lack of) support is also pretty moot, as the gauges "just work" for the vast, vast majority.    I use them everyday and have never required support.

 

The Mindstar product not having the Terrain feature; which is a fundamental part of these units (and works so well in the RXP units) is a showstopper for me.

 

Also, continually battering the point that "it's not RXP, it's the Garmin Trainer" is completely irrelevent - the fact is, RXP got it working in a gauge in FS..... no mean feat.... and it works exceptionally well.

 

I'm not keen on the Mindstar approach to PR / website / posts and communication style in some posts, so will pass on this.

I'm not keen on the Mindstar approach to PR / website / posts and communication style in some posts, so will pass on this.

 

You have to understand Dave that Mindstar is more in the buisness for Commercial customers.  As stated in another post simmers are just secondary pocket change for most developers as now with the advances in programming come demand from much higher paying commercial flight training programs.  I'm sure simmers (me included) are just a minority of Mindstars buisness model. 

 

The way I look at it if its good enough for flight training programs that use it in their simulators then it will be more than useful for me.  The advantage being updated navdata, crossfill that doesn't cost $100, never really used terrain data but where I live its pretty flat.

 

This is not a game product its more a commercial level product that doesn't need to advertise or promote as Aerosoft does with gamey addon products.  

 

Reality XP is a great product but they just left customers high and dry whether you need support or not.  Two addons recently still have issue integrating the RXP due to lack of support from the developer.  If RXP decided it was time to close shop maybe they should have the decency to let people know.  Talk about lack of PR and communication.  There is a prime example.

I'm not sure if you've been to the Navigraph site lately and seen their news regarding the data coverage and sources:

 

http://www.navigraph.com/FmsDataCoverage.aspx

 

I don't buy into all the reasons given here why you're promoting RealNav over Navigraph or NavDataPro. As far as I'm concerned Mindstar Aviation and RealNav are the same company and you're simply promoting yourself. But instead, all I see in this thread is a big spiel as to why your data is better and of a higher quality than the source many of us already use, Navigraph.

 

I haven't ever come across an approach missing in the Navigraph data, and I'm certain that their data covers over 90% if not more of the add-on airports and regions most of us typicaly use.

 

Sorry, but I do not just believe such statements at face value:

 

<<There is so much ARINC data missing from Navigraph, and I'm not simply talking about procedures and approaches, it would be nigh impossible to accurately simulate a GNS based on those data sets.>>

 

Do you have anything that you can provide us with to backup this statement? Is there proof?

 

Thanks.

 

Matthias

 

Thanks Scott, but as I just wrote in another post, I do not find these explanations sufficient and plausible enough. What I have seen is like Pepsi explaining why their product is better than Coca Cola. What I would like to see are facts and figures like those in car comparisons that show why an Audi A4 is better than a Ford Mondeo.

 

Matthias

 

Matthias

 

I wrote the Eaglesoft Citation X v2.  I am intimately familiar with the Navigraph database it uses as I am the one that requested Navigraph create the database for the addon.

 

I also wrote a good portion of the GNS 430/530 for Mindstar.  I am intimately familiar with the RealNav database.  We picked that database because it contained far more information than any other available database. 

 

In simplest terms the RealNav database has over 22,000 airports with their runways, IAPs, SIDs and STARs.  In more complex terms, it contains more detailed information regarding approaches that neither Navigraph nor NavDataPro offer.  This information is critical in the GNS units to properly display as well as execute approaches under certain conditions.   If you choose to not purchase RealNav data, for whatever reason, it's your decision.  Just like it's Mindstar's decision to not use Navigraph/NavDataPro due to inaccuracies/incomplete data.

 

Finally, I will point this out:  This is a commercial product in use in real world training.  Neither Navigraph nor NavDataPro can be used in a real world training environment.

 

Finally, I will point this out:  This is a commercial product in use in real world training.  Neither Navigraph nor NavDataPro can be used in a real world training environment.

 

I'm really interested in this addon.

 

One betatester here said that it has the vnav button and you can input data in it, but it wont do anything.

Will you maybe consider it in the future that it at least calculate the 'tod' and displays it and also shows the required sinkrate to reach that goal ? (no interaction with the aircraft needed just the display)

I don't know how much work that would be but it would be a big plus for me.

Regarding missing data...

 

KJYO RNAV 17 approach:

 

According to the FAA's approach plate you have the following transitions available: vectored, MRB, ZAXEN, KORNY, HOAGE, CACAS.  According to Navigraph you have vectored, MRB, ZAXEN, HOAGE, CACAS.

 

KHGR ILS 27 approach:

 

According to the FAA's approach plate you have the following transitions available: vectored, HGR, HAIGS.  According to Navigraph you have vectored and HGR.

 

KIAD ILS 19C approach:

 

According to the FAA's approach plate you have the following transitions available: vectored, MRB, HOOSR.  According to Navigraph you have vectored and MRB.

 

I could go on and on... but really, there is no honest comparison between what Navigraph/NavDataPro provide versus what RealNav provides.

 

Lusche,  I was under the impression that the VNAV fields functioned so I will check into that and get back to you.

Great, this means I dont have to worry about Reality XP not supporting P3D.

 

and FSX too by the lack of developer activity

This seems a very strange viewpoint to me, almost like McDonalds saying we are more in the business selling to black people than white people. If you run a business then run it professionaly or don't bother. Most of us here have demanding jobs and little free time, and I am most certainly not going to spend a whole weekend trying to integrate this into an aircraft panel, when Mindstar should be releasing this with at least a few ready and available configurations.

 

The only advantage I see at present is that this will support Prepar3D, whereas RealityXP only supports FSX. If Mindstar do not release this with at least the currently active AIRAC without buyers having to signup to RealNav, then it will confirm that their GNS is merely a vehicle to sell RealNav subscriptions.

 

As it is I am still not convinced about RealNav delivering data that Navigraph cannot.

 

Matthias

What has any of this discussion to do with race?  Please don't take that discussion any further.

 

As for what you believe we need to do or not do... it's your opinion and that's fine.

 

Name a single addon that uses updateable navdata that provides the current cycle.  Just one.

 

Lusche,  I was under the impression that the VNAV fields functioned so I will check into that and get back to you.

 

if it already calculates the tod and the projected decent rate that would make me really happy.

the math to calculate it is not hard, but I don't want to do math while having fun

 

 

Name a single addon that uses updateable navdata that provides the current cycle.  Just one.

 

I hope it isn't a cyle from the last century

I would be fine if its one from late 2012 or even better one from 2013.

Perhaps if RealNav could start supporting the other addons out there then.  If it is that much superior people would want to be using it in their PMDG 7X7s and so on.  As I stated in one of my previous posts- there is a lot to like about this product but I am not comfortable with buying parallel AIRAC data subscriptions.  I can not justify that, especially when one only serves one product I use.  And the lack of terrain data still kind of irks me a bit as well.

 

I really want to see this add on do well but I've decided to wait and see.  There are just too many 'but...'s associated with it right now.  Like the biggest feature being the updatable navdata BUT it is navdata that you have to buy a separate subscription to. Or that you get cross fill BUT not VNAV or terrain data.

Matthias,

 

You're statements are some of the most vile, immature, and ignorant of any I have seen on any forum. If you are not going to be constructive and mature with any of your comments, then go elsewhere. In fact, do us all a favor and just stop posting your crap. No one is out to get you, and no one has a hidden agenda here. If you don't want the product, don't buy it. But do not come on here and treat the developers at Mindstar as if they are dishonest people out to just get your money. Your characterization of these PEOPLE have crossed a line, especially when you compared them to race hustlers. Unbelievable. And just so you know, these same gauges cost commercial users thousands of dollars. We get the same gauge for $50. Mindstar is easily justified by charging you $200 for this package and that still would be a bargain. So, if you have nothing respectful to say, then go away.

 

 

Lusche,

 

The VNAV page works in terms of entering data. As was explained to me, it won't drive the default VOR gauges or other 3rd party gauges in terms of managing the descent. I don't remember if it calculates your rate if descent and TOD or not. I haven't checked as I do all my flying on Pilot Edge, so ATC usually tells me when to descend. And I can usually calculate all of that stuff by the time it takes me to enter everything into the GNS unit. I probably wasn't very clear about that, and for that I apologize.

 

Todd

Uh Oh...I see where this is going...shame.

 

 

I doubt I will go for these. I see nothing that RXP doesn't already give me (that appeals to me). The point about RXP (lack of) support is also pretty moot, as the gauges "just work" for the vast, vast majority. I use them everyday and have never required support.

 

Dave, I've echoed these and other similar comments in the past.  I admit I'm not especially interested in this from an FSX perspective.  What's shifted my interest is the upcoming P3D v2 release and the fact that RXP is not an option there.  As a GA guy, I shudder at the thought of having to move to default GPS's in order to move into the P3D world, so I want to see these guys succeed and at least give their product a chance.

 

And specific to the support issue, I agree from the user's perspective.  But having heard from both Milviz (who did manage to get the RXP's integrated into the B55 with difficulty and a few early mis-steps) and Aerosoft who punted on putting them into the Twotter when they couldn't contact the developer for info they needed, the issue of support is still important from that side of the fence.

 

 

 

Also, continually battering the point that "it's not RXP, it's the Garmin Trainer" is completely irrelevent - the fact is, RXP got it working in a gauge in FS..... no mean feat.... and it works exceptionally well.

 

On this we completely agree - I think all would be better served to see this argument dropped.  The point from the end-user's perspective is that the product works, and works pretty much flawlessly.  In fact, the RXP gauges' performance is generally superior to even the default units most likely because of this architecture, running largely outside of FSX.  Arguing this as a negative when from the end-user perspective it's largely a positive is self-defeating.  Being based on the real-world Garmin trainer (developed to train and familiarize owners of the RW devices) seems pretty professional-grade to me.

 

Scott

I think this is going to fill an important gap that's going to be coming with P3D 2.0.  People are free to not like some of the decisions they've made but I'm just glad the option is coming. 

Arguing this as a negative when from the end-user perspective it's largely a positive is self-defeating.  Being based on the real-world Garmin trainer (developed to train and familiarize owners of the RW devices) seems pretty professional-grade to me.

To be honest Scott, the point that is trying to be made is truly one of perspective. Many have applauded RXP (Jean-Luc) for "inventing sliced bread," when in reality (pun intended) he simply "invented the plastic bag" the bread comes in. :ph34r:

 

I've lost count of the number of times folks have asked, "If RXP could do (name some feature), why can't others do so as well?" To which the only honest answer is "RXP didn't do (this feature), Garmin did!"

 

Nonetheless, it was a remarkable achievement and has been highly appreciated by many folks over the years. B)

Uh Oh...I see where this is going...shame.

That will not be allowed... ^_^