.this tells you why you have to take a hard stand against abuse .

 

As someone who has worked with customers for a good while, I agree with this. I am here to serve you, but that doesn't mean that customers can say or do anything they want. Companies have to protect their employees as well against unruly customers. 

Hi,

 

Well that's good..... I have FS Global 2010 as well as FSGenesis. Just want to make sure FS Global Ultimate isn't better than 2010.

I implore the moderator here to please leave this reply intact to inform the uninitiated as what to expect in in terms of the further 'support', or the lack thereof, for VECTOR.   The reality is this software behaves much more like a patch than add-on software:  patches perform a 'dumb' dump of data into existing software typically w/ no user control, just like VECTOR does.  Everyone should fully understand this, and that NO change to this policy is going to happen. The reality is everyone here, in FSX & P3D, is concerned about visuals & performance.  Perhaps for users that fly in high-demand situations it's important to be able to dial back dense road data to save performance.    Or some may find visually things are too busy.  You will currently have no control on either of these two very important areas after you install VECTOR:

 

 

 

And as discussions regarding Orbx products, especially fault finding ones cannot be posted on their dedicated forum, Avsim gets the honor.

 

I don't think so, plenty of people reporting issues (me included) ... just one of many issues being reported: http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/70514-black-rivers-p3dv2/#entry648689

 

 

 

The water in that last screenshot is really great!

 

J van E got me flying Norway, and wow, I'm really enjoying that area.  There so many more vehicles on roads just about everywhere ... sadly I can only seem to fly for about 1-2 hours before OOM.  I hope LM get 2.05 out soon so I can get these memory leaks fixed.

I do recall UTX having certain issues as regards to out of place scenery (eg. in my hometown, there was an interchange built before UTX was released that wasn't there in UTX, or a golf course which has been around since 1981 that wasn't in it's place. However, through patching, they got it fixed. Similar to what people have been saying. Certain things aren't exactly how they are. 

There are a couple troubling things about this.

 

One BIG thing that endears me to flight sims, is the open ended-ness of them. It is stated in this thread that once Vector is installed, the order in which it resides in the scenery library is very important for proper function.

 

If this is the case then how in the future will you add anything into you scenery library without screwing things up?

 

If I decide to purchase and install this type of software, am I closing the door to using and or trying other products (without a fresh install)?

 

IMHO this direction is not a good thing. 

The first posters asked about impressions, so here are my impressions.  I have FTXG and FTXG Vector installed.  Removed Scenery Tech and UTX to do so.  Yes, I know that ST is just landclass, and Orbx has not released their landclass fully yet, but it is what I will use when it comes out.  The Orbx software can be used standalone or together, and are meant to complement each other, so I will pick up the LC's when they release.  I believe that the first one for Europe will be in the Feb-Mar 2014 timeframe.

 

First, to clarify, Orbx gives a very good summation of how their system is constructed.  Essentially, FTX is in four layers, not three.  Terrain mesh is the bottom layer, followed by FTX OpenLC, FTX Global Base, and FTX Vector, bottom to top, in that order.  TERRAIN MESH IS NOT PART OF THIS PACKAGE, but there is a PILOT'S FS Global 2010 FTX Edition available that covers the entire planet and was used with the beta testing group.  It's $89 AUD.  However, FTX Vector WILL change all of the heights of the airports to their correct heights.

 

So, how does it look/perform?  Still running +30fps in most places, looks good, and will look better with the release of FTX OpenLC.  It's initially not going to be 100% and Orbx announces that in their manuals on the first page in a large yellow and red block of text.  Updates will be free to registered users as stated in their manuals. Kudos for being straight up about that right from the beginning.

 

I will toss up some screenies as I can.  Right now, I am pulling down my entire sim SSD and rebuilding it due to a hardware issue unrelated to Orbx.

 

BTW: why did I choose Orbx?  Because, in my opinion, after flying a demo region in the PMDG JS4100, these guys understand mostly what we are all looking for, and are likely to support us much farther into the future than others.  They are committed to P3D v1 and v2, FSX, and DX10/DX11 users.  UTX, GEX, and ST are pretty much dead-end if I'm not mistaken.  In other words, they aren't going to be releasing anything new that I am aware of.  Not bad products, just that they've seen their day in my opinion.

 

Man, it just came out, and Orbx has said that there will be patches and updates.  They have a large amount of stuff that they are constantly doing for FREE and hustling patches out when things are not quite right.  Rather than complain over a fresh release so much, give it a chance for Pete's sake.  A lot of our software is never perfect right out the door.  Heck, even our beloved NGX has updates!

 

Kattz out.

The problem w/ this entire issue is that, while it's easy to fall back on 'we told you so previously' as Venema does, this IS NOT stated in their lovely advertisement for VECTOR at FlightSim Store.  I did what the other naive early adopters did:  got the email from FSS, clicked the link, read the overview and looked at screenshots, then pulled the trigger.  There is plenty of precedent in the software world that user control, preferences, etc are common enough to call them 'usual and customary', especially for something w/ this sort of price tag.  Indeed, look at FTX Central which at least offers a modicum of control for things like 3D lights size, on or off night lights, etc.  UTX?  Yes.  So while all adults should know this is 'caveat emptor', assumptions are easily made even by seasoned customers, like Howard, Guenther, Noel, others based on 'reasonable expectations' of usual and customary. 

 

The best I could do after requesting this very basic of features present in the vast majority of software be added to VECTOR and getting flatly rejected ad hoc, is opened a dispute, unfortunately thru PayPal.   Had I made the purchase w/ a CC I would contact the card company and informed them not to honor the debit.  

 

The other dynamic here is that, as we all know, ORBX makes some fine product generally, and the competition isn't necessarily great.  This, along w/ the passion users have for flight simulation, allow companies like ORBX to be less sensitive to customer requests.  So yes, there is as tacit arrogance IMO.  I refer you back to the fact the knowledge regarding this issue IS NOT stated clearly at all on their glitzy advertisement for VECTOR.  Venema's comment, 'this has been explained to customers many times before' was certainly never explained to me, and anyone wandering into the FSS would not know this, apparently w/o digging in fairly deep or reading between the lines.  AKA, bologna!

 

 

uninitiated as what to expect in in terms of the further 'support', or the lack thereof, for VECTOR.

 

Hi Noel, what you have asked for is a "feature request", the answer you got back IS support.  No support would be no answer at all.  The developer was honest and let you know that your feature request is not going to be implemented ... this seems fair and reasonable response.  It may NOT be the response you wanted, but it was a response.

 

Rob

There are a couple troubling things about this.

 

One BIG thing that endears me to flight sims, is the open ended-ness of them. It is stated in this thread that once Vector is installed, the order in which it resides in the scenery library is very important for proper function.

 

If this is the case then how in the future will you add anything into you scenery library without screwing things up?

 

If I decide to purchase and install this type of software, am I closing the door to using and or trying other products (without a fresh install)?

 

IMHO this direction is not a good thing. 

 

They are LOCKED in at their appropriate place in the scenery registry per the Orbx docs.  I've installed some FlyTampa and Flightbeam airfields over the Orbx terrain and they are in their correct locations and look good with no problems.

Hi Noel, what you have asked for is a "feature request", the answer you got back IS support.  No support would be no answer at all.  The developer was honest and let you know that your feature request is not going to be implemented ... this seems fair and reasonable response.  It may NOT be the response you wanted, but it was a response.

 

Rob

Agreed, w/ the caveat that most all users would want, and many would expect, this feature to be present at launch.

I just replied to J. Venema's response to Noel's post over at the ORBX forum.  I just told him that I won't be buying Vector unless they include some *minimal* user options such as what road types to render and whether to use encasements and/or set their widths.

 

Once again John Venema is displaying his innate arrogance with his terse responses like "not going to happen".  Well, I'll tell you what else ain't going to happen, John: you are not going to get any money from me for your Vector product.  How about that?  Keep up the attitude and keep losing customers like me.

 

Dave

Another thing: JV posted that there will never be a possibility to set options for Vector. It's all or nothing. If you don't like the amount of roads or the encasements, bad luck. They want to keep it simple.

In the case of road widths and encasements, they can be edited from within the terrain.cfg. Someone will do it sooner rather than later, just as we did with getting the FTXG lights to work with UTX roads.I'll probably have a play later on and see what I can do.

 

So while all adults should know this is 'caveat emptor', assumptions are easily made even by seasoned customers, like Howard, Guenther, Noel, others based on 'reasonable expectations' of usual and customary.

The crux of the matter as far as I can see, is you are unhappy because a feature is missing that was never advertised. You are absolutely right, it is the buyer's responsibility to check out what they are paying for, especially when you are looking for a specific feature as you were expecting in this case. Without wanting to sound too harsh, it's not Orbx's fault, it's yours. They did say some time ago that they will not be including any means of configuring the features. If the buyer isn't going to be diligent in checking out exactly what they are plonking down the cash for, then stuff like this is going to happen. Caveat emptor indeed.Having said that, I do think a miscalculation has been made in not giving any form of configuration tool. Hopefully if enough of us ask for it they will change their mind.

 

I refer you back to the fact the knowledge regarding this issue IS NOT stated clearly at all on their glitzy advertisement for VECTOR.

If you buy things based on nothing more than advertisments then I'm sorry to say you are going to be disappointed a lot of the time.

 

They are LOCKED in at their appropriate place in the scenery registry per the Orbx docs.

The Vector entries, by default are placed just above the default scenery layers. I've moved the Vector entry higher up to another place that is more logical for my use, and sure enough nothing bad happened - because I have a fairly good idea what I'm doing. When Orbx say "don't move it" they are trying to avoid people who don't quite understand what they're doing messing up their scenery order and going to them for support.This of course, doesn't take into account the less than ideal way in which FTX Central orders things by itself. I don't like the way FTX Central works in the sense that when the user enables one FTX region, FTX Central will enable all of them in the sim. I also noticed that after installing Global textures it places the OpenLC entries at the top of my scenery.cfg which in turn caused them to override the landclass from the FTX regions. FTX Central has always been, and continues to be a pain in the backside.

 

I just replied to J. Venema's response to Noel's post over at the ORBX forum. I just told him that I won't be buying Vector unless they include some *minimal* user options such as what road types to render and whether to use encasements and/or set their widths. Once again John Venema is displaying his innate arrogance with his terse responses like "not going to happen". Well, I'll tell you what else ain't going to happen, John: you are not going to get any money from me for your Vector product. How about that? Keep up the attitude and keep losing customers like me.

A couple of points here:Orbx didn't develop Vector. Pilots did. If you want a feature added then the best people to address your request to is Pilots and not Orbx.Secondly, we all know that JV is his own worst enemy when it comes to customer relations. Picking a fight with him is just going to make him dig himself even deeper into that hole. In my experience the best way to win an argument is not to lock horns with the other person and wrestle them into submission, and this is certainly never going to work with a character like JV. Telling him you're never going to give him a penny until he changes his way won't get you anywhere with him. The best way is to just remain calm, respectful and reasoned. Pursuade him it's a good idea to put a configuration tool.If anyone's interested in actually seeing some screenshots of vector I've posted quite a few here:http://forum.avsim.net/topic/430547-ftx-global-vector/#entry2892093

If anyone's interested in actually seeing some screenshots of vector I've posted quite a few here:

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/430547-ftx-global-vector/#entry2892093

 

WOW.  Nicely done.  And one can see how well Vector works out in England with a developed LC under it.  Thanks for posting those!

Soooo, what happen to the elevation fixes??? :rolleyes:

 

I'm not really seeing that many elevation fixes to be honest. Didn't JV advertise all 29k airports fixed or something??? I don't have to fly around Colorado much before I see elevated runways all over the place. Posting pictures of every elevated airport for Orbx too tedious and time consuming, they should be paying me for the beta testing. The amount of elevation issues with Vector is almost mind numbing, to be honest. Even KDEN is elevated?!? Really! Wow...simply wow. 

 

Aspen (KASE)