FTX: Global VECTOR Released

[tf51d 284]

Are you sure about this, Tom? Within the framework of the SDKs most everything is subject to either exclusion or layering priority with the Scenery Library.

That's what I take from this statement in the manual, except for UT's Land class, seems like UT will conflict with Vector. Unless I'm missing something!

 

"ULTIMATE TERRAIN X (UTX)

FTX Global VECTOR directly competes with UTX, since we replace vector data contained UTX. You have a lot of

configuration options available using the UTX configuration tool and we recommend you take time to explore

what works best when FTXG and Vector are combined. More than likely most of the features of UTX will clash

with Vector. If you are wanting an interim landclass solution until openLC arrives, then it is entirely possible to

disable all UTX features excepts it’s landclass layers."

[MdMax 233]

Please don't forget where the data comes from: OpenStreetMap
http://www.openstreetmap.org/

Unlike some very bad commercial products with the word "open", here it really means open: you have the freedom to download the data, the freedom to improve/modify the data, the freedom do distribute the data, as long as you don't forget the attribution, to share it with an open license, and keep it open:
http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/summary/

If you find errors in your scenery in your area you really know (missing streets, missing ponds, wrong shape, ...), check the map in OpenStreetMap. If it's also false in OpenStreetMap, you can report the error to the community (use the "Notes" function), or you can be part of the OpenStreetMap community and correct it. It's very easy to contribute:
http://goo.gl/Dwjl1v

Commercial data sources may be (if you're lucky) more precise and more complete in a few countries, but if you want a global worldwide coverage, you'll not find a better source than OpenStreetMap (more than 1,200,000 contributors). It's just like comparing Encarta with Wikipedia.

On another flight simulator where they comply with the OSM license and where they are encouraging their users to contribute to OpenStreetMap, being able to view every little street, pond, precise coastlines and rivers, power lines or railways, in a global worldwide scenery, is a default feature since 2011. With 3rd party open-source tools, you can even import objects, forests and buildings, I think it's a must have for a flight simulator.

I hope the guys selling "Global VECTOR" will comply to the OpenStreetMap ODbL license. As long as they are selling vectors made by others as a closed product where they claim they have the copyrights, it's a pure copyright infringement.

[DarkstarF16 72]

It seems traditional Orbx bashing started again.

I sense a certain amount of frustration regarding ORBX creeping in. I'm assuming this manifests itself as bashing as you call it.

 

Go back a few years and the quality of their products appears to be excellent. With recent releases, England is a perfect example, that quality has receded. What also became apparent was that its accuracy came into question. People started to ask questions about how accurate the other regions are.

 

Then, theirs the undertone that ORBX forums do not reflect reality because they are heavily edited and you have a recipe for dissatisfaction. They are the company, it's all under their control.

 

Of course if your not happy with software, you can uninstall it. Can't you? Taking this control away from the end user is, well let's just say its a little controlling.

 

You pays your money and expect a level of quality. If your names on the tin your only as good as your last release.

 

For a time, it seems that their products were not good, they were excellent. Now they fall into another category. While some are still happy with ORBX products others are saying the shine is a little duller and the quality is not the same.

 

What I see is a turning point, hence the level of noise now surrounding the ORBX name. My observations are that ORBX did indeed create stunning products. They made a name synonymous with quality, value for money and a must have product. They have expanded greatly, and want to make the simulation world better in the shortest time possible.

 

IMO the 'bashing' as you call it is justified. They just need to remember where the brakes are and using them in the right place doesn't mean you won't win the race.

[ChaoticBeauty 6,692]

Maybe Orbx should stop outsourcing work to others or putting others' work under the Orbx label? It's obvious that the products with the most criticism are the ones made by Sim720, and FTX Global Vector was created entirely by PILOT'S.

[MdMax 233]

FTX Global Vector was created entirely by PILOT'S.

 

Did PILOT'S drew from scratch every single vector they are selling, or did they copy and convert the data from a 3rd party source without complying to the license ?

 

I don't care if it's PILOT'S or FTX or Orbx. I just want to make sure that scenery problems can be identified and fixed at the source so future products using the same source will be better.

[EngineRoom 205]

 

 

It seems traditional Orbx bashing started again. This happens every time they release a major product, but after couple of months I see everybody is using their product.

 

Agreed. This thread is a pretty good example of what happens. From what I can gather most people complaining in this thread do not have Vector installed. The few that have aren't anywhere near as negative about it. If you read this thread you'll get the impression - again from people who do not have it installed - that Vector has residential roads that decimate autogen. I do have Vector installed and I have checked out my home area that I am very familiar with and there are no residential roads.

 

 

 

Please don't forget where the data comes from: OpenStreetMap

 

Instead of repeating the same thing again and again in this thread, why not take this up with Pilots and OSM? If we are going to indulge in armchair lawyering then perhaps you might want to consider that maybe, just maybe by posting that Pilots/Orbx are misusing OSM data and license busting you could be leaving Avsim open to litigation?

 

Again, if you believe OSM has been illegally used then take it up with the parties involved.

 

 

 

IMO the 'bashing' as you call it is justified.

 

There's fair criticism and then there's bashing because it's Orbx. I wonder if Pilots had never teamed up with Orbx and the Orbx brand was nowhere to be seen on this product, would this thread now be eight pages long of negative comments and bashing?

 

Probably not.

 

This thread is almost exactly the same as the FTX Global release thread earlier this year. We're now at eight pages of negative comments mostly from people who don't have the product installed, we've got complaints that it's a poor quality or shoddy release, it's too expensive, they fleeced us because they never told us we needed a higher res mesh, it's too expensive, it looks awful, they've used OSM data illegally, it's a disaster of a release, John Venema ate my goldfish, etc etc. Just for a second, consider that the REX4 release thread lasted a few hours on Christmas Eve before it was deleted after receiving similar harsh criticism.

 

Look at the history. Back in 2011 Orbx had a Christmas sale that upset a lot of customers. Quite a few of those upset customers took Orbx to task on this and were banned from the Orbx forum. Around the same time Avsim opened an "Unofficial Orbx Forum" here and those disgruntled customers set up camp here and then spent several months spewing all sorts of venom at Orbx, including some rather personal comments aimed at John Venema in particular. It became something of a sport in that forum for quite some time, and even the forum moderator was in the thick of it.

 

For all the criticism that Orbx's forum is heavily moderated and they don't tolerate any criticism there, that everybody posting there is an Orbx sycophant and fawns unnecessarily over their products... at Avsim we've got the mirror image - the place to go if you want to have a pop at Orbx and JV. Both are wrong.

 

I'll ask again - does anybody know anywhere else I can get a vector scenery package with global coverage at this price? UTX is nice, but it's only available in five packages that only cover a few parts of the world. Those packages are each half the price of FTXG Vector. You're also likely to going to have to pay again to use them in P3Dv2 unlike FTXG Vector which is $70 for the entire world, licensed for use in FSX and P3D.

 

Doesn't really seem like such a bad deal to me. Then again I've not got an axe to grind with Orbx or a guy I've never met.

[ChaoticBeauty 6,692]

Did PILOT'S drew from scratch every single vector they are selling, or did they copy and convert the data from a 3rd party source without complying to the license ?

 

I don't care if it's PILOT'S or FTX or Orbx. I just want to make sure that scenery problems can be identified and fixed at the source so future products using the same source will be better.

 

No, they got the vector data from elsewhere. What I mean is that the product as a whole was created by PILOT'S, and Orbx just distribute it (and seem to provide some level of support).

[ZKOKQ 984]

 

 

Doesn't really seem like such a bad deal to me. Then again I've not got an axe to grind with Orbx or a guy I've never met

I think we got the point you love Orbx. Thanks for the lecture. But most of the posts have been informative.And as discussions regarding Orbx products, especially fault finding ones cannot be posted on their dedicated forum, Avsim gets the honor.

Where else can one discuss warts and all ?  Don't believee there has been any personal attacks in this thread. Why bring the pre purchase fiasco into your posts ? 

[NGXfanatic 85]

I wonder if there is a way to have UTX on a higher priority over Orbx vector, so that we have global vector road data everywhere UTX is not active?

[EngineRoom 205]

I think we got the point you love Orbx. Thanks for the lecture.

 

I had to have a chuckle at the binary thinking here. I'm not bashing Orbx, therefore I must "love" them. Very poor riposte, my friend.

 

If you've read any of my other posts in Orbx related threads you'll see I do not "love" Orbx and I have been quite critical of them when it is warranted.

 

The "pre purchase fiasco" has everything to do with this as it led those banned from the Orbx forum to set up camp at Avsim and start bashing away for many months. It quite effectively set the tone for nearly all further Orbx discussions at Avsim, particularly headline releases like Vector. If you want a "warts and all" discussion of Orbx that's fine, I do too. I think, however, there are more than a few here who only want to discuss the warts.

 

In this case however, the question remains:

 

If this product had been released entirely under Pilot's own label, with absolutely no involvement from Orbx, would this thread now be eight pages long full of criticism and bashing?

[scotchegg 4,207]

would this thread now be eight pages long full of criticism and bashing

 

Unlike the 4 pages of support tickets on the Orbx forums already opened in the 48 hours since release of the product. With to date how many answered? Erm.....one.

[steve howlett 137]

Unlike the 4 pages of support tickets on the Orbx forums already opened in the 48 hours since release of the product. With to date how many answered? Erm.....one.

if you bothered to read any of the posts you would see that most have been answered.just not tagged as answered.

seems you need to get your facts straight before posting.most of the posts are also not ones that can be solved straight away.they could be system specific of scenery specific.Ie someone who owns SwitzerlandX and has a water problem.or someone who owns a different mesh or a hundred different scenery packages.seems to me EngineRoom is right.

 

 

   steve

 

As for OrbX Forum policy you can critisize whatever you want.they just don't allow forum members to be rude or nasty.a senior member of REX who was politely answering a post on here the other day received a PM from the OP hoping his family were burnt to death in a Fire because he couldn't get REX4 to work properly.this tells you why you have to take a hard stand against abuse .

[EngineRoom 205]

 

 

a senior member of REX who was politely answering a post on here the other day received a PM from the OP hoping his family were burnt to death in a Fire because he couldn't get REX4 to work properly.

 

Wow. Just... Wow.

[scotchegg 4,207]

if you bothered to read any of the posts you would see that most have been answered.just not tagged as answered.

 

I have read many of them and they have replies, but they haven't been answered. Actually only a handful of them (I count 3 as of this post) have been replied to by a dev. Perhaps you should take the trouble of reading a few yourself before you accuse others of not doing so.

[tf51d 284]

I wonder if there is a way to have UTX on a higher priority over Orbx vector, so that we have global vector road data everywhere UTX is not active?

The manual states it's placed in a very specific place in the scenery DB, and warns not to move it up or down, or Vector won't work right. Sounds to me they place it on top. If that's true then you won't be able to move UTX on top, and worse may potentially limit what can be done with other scenery.