Vic, are you saying the rotation issue is not happening w/ ASN, or cloud popping?  Popping is no problem for me be rotation looks like a placeholder until they get around to completely eliminating it.

First = the rotation is inherent in FSX and therefore P3D. It was NOT a decision by LM - that's pure bullpucky. As to ASN, the popping is gone and the rotation is modified and we are working on a more permanent solution.

 

That said - if you go into spot view above your a/c and look down and left nd right - you will see rotation. I have to intentionally set up a situation in order to notice it.

 

Best solution - try the FREE fully functional 7 day demo - see how it works on YOUR system and see what is important to YOU.

 

Frankly, the xgauge weather radar alone is worth the price of admission!!

 

Vic

My personal opinion is that either method is a compromise.

 

Absolutely, either method currently employed is a compromise, but the older method, and where it assumes the viewpoint [which is the only change] on the whole works far better... it would be lovely to have realtime building volumetric structures, but no one can realistically expect this to be incorporated into an application of this sort, at this point in time.

 

XPX tries to do something different with cloud rendering, but it fails miserably IMO, and I would rather have P3D's spinners than those horrible little 'puffs'... Despite the primitive nature of the ESP/FSX/P3D cloud system, it actually does a very good job at creating a realistic skyscape across a range of conditions... in fact, the atmospherics overall are very good, and can still put more modern games to shame.

 

 

 

First = the rotation is inherent in FSX and therefore P3D. It was NOT a decision by LM - that's pure bullpucky

 

Sorry, you are wrong... it has been done to death, so I'm not going into the detail yet again, but LM have changed how clouds are drawn relative to the camera, rather than the aircraft position, which they were. You do not need to do anything out of the ordinary to notice this.

 

Yes, the clouds do rotate in FSX but you will only see it if you work hard too, unlike the LM system.

 

There is a huge thread on the LM forum regarding this, and LM note it, and talk about the change.

 

 

First = the rotation is inherent in FSX and therefore P3D. It was NOT a decision by LM - that's pure bullpucky.

 

I never heard of the word bullpucky and don't know what it means but after reading your sentence I know enough of its meaning to say that what you are saying is the real pure bullpucky. ^_^ LM stated on their own forum how and why they changed the behaviour of clouds. It was a clear and deliberate decision.

I wonder if LM have considered a hybrid system where any clouds within say 1 mile and in your 90 degree forward arc are fixed to eye point rotation and all others are based on position..

 

 

it would be lovely to have realtime building volumetric structures, but no one can realistically expect this to be incorporated into an application of this sort, at this point in time.

 

To be clear, it's not a coding issue, the particle system already exists in P3D (that's the water spray you see on takeoff and landing and the debris effects from taxi on windy days, etc. etc. -- and as people have experienced that particle system can induce a HUGE strain on processing/fps).  It's not a code limitation (at any level), it's a hardware limitation ... there is nothing now or in the near future that could handle real time processing of particle clouds of this magnitude (which is what many are really asking for) in a world simulation.

 

That doesn't mean changes can't be made and enhancements to how clouds are done ... but those changes will need to balance out performance and take into account 3rd party texture products that will no longer work if changes are made.  As always, there are those demanding change and those demanding compatibility ... significant changes can and will break compatibility.

 

I don't know what is involved in allowing an option to change how the current system view point change relative to cloud billboard (which are just scaled images).  LM did indicate it was a relatively easy change, but making an option to go between the two compromised methods, I don't know what's involved nor am I going to second guess.  I have expressed it would be a nice option, as have many others.

 

Cheers, Rob.

bullpucky  /  adv. /   1; a word of Japanese and American origin made up whilst in animal heat, as an atempt to mullwocky your brain into submission.  2; Avsim member named J van E's futile attempt at modernistic impressionism. 3; a polite way to dismiss or reject something whithout having to say ###### (sounds like bull-shet ...  pardon my French). 

similar adverbs:  tittybongy; sapiosexually. 

 

 

XPX tries to do something different with cloud rendering, but it fails miserably IMO,

 

XP just uses a different process ... it's a compromised process also.

it's a hardware limitation

 

 

Indeed Rob, that is what I was alluding too... I can be done, but could we run it.

 

 

 

XP just uses a different process ... it's a compromised process also.

 

 

Yes, and personally I think that compromise is greater. From my playing around with the XPX demo the most disappointing aspect was creating convincing looking weather, and I see the same in the very best XP screenshots... it is a great looking sim, but those clouds let it down. Plus, when you push the coverage, performance plummets.

 

 

LM did indicate it was a relatively easy change, but making an option to go between the two compromised methods, I don't know what's involved nor am I going to second guess.

 

Probably not an option, but an elegant solution could exist if it was possible, seamlessly, to switch between the two modes in real time.  Then, whenever a controller sends a pan command, the non-rotating option would become active, or something along those lines.  Sounds very non-possible, but not sure...

There is a huge thread on the LM forum regarding this, and LM note it, and talk about the change.

 

 

To me, the cloud rotation issue is somewhat overstated. First of all, to the uninitiated, the term "cloud rotation" sounds like the clouds are spinning around and around like a top. In fact, the problem is actually that as the clouds get closer to the aircraft, it becomes apparent that the cloud "faces" are moving as you pan, so that they always face you. With TrackIR, this becomes more obvious. With a high FOV, it becomes more obvious also. The faster you pan, the worse the problem becomes. To me all this is a consequence of far more realistic cloud graphics in P3d. It certainly could be fixed by LM, but it doesn't seem like a high priority to them and it isn't to me either.

I have a feeling alot of very realistic features are held back not really because of programming limitations but because of performance. We can demand all we want , but it would end up being a slide show. Something we are just starting to overcome consistently. 

 

PC flight simulation will always be burdened by performance issues for a long while yet. We are not even close to the processing power needed to satisfy ultra realism. 

FYI -

Here in the "south" it's BullHockey??? go figure

I never heard of the word bullpucky and don't know what it means but after reading your sentence I know enough of its meaning to say that what you are saying is the real pure bullpucky. ^_^ LM stated on their own forum how and why they changed the behaviour of clouds. It was a clear and deliberate decision.

Not quite Jeroen. The rotating cloud issue has ALWAYS been present in FSX and P3D. In 2.0 LM made a conscious decision to change the behavior of the clouds which AFFECTED the rotating clouds. THEY (LM) did NOT "cause" the rotating clouds which is what I inferred from the post I replied to. That statement - "LM consciously caused the rotating clouds" is bull puckey lpain and simple.

 

Vic

Yes the rotating clouds where always there but in FSX you had to be looking behind you up or down at an oblique angle before you could see a cloud rotate using the old rendering with the new rendering method all you have to is look around and virtually every cloud in a layer rotates in sync with your head movement. I'll say this one last time. The new rendering method is suitable for IFR flight and the old rendering method is suitable for VFR flight, period. LM said that it would be no problem to put a switch in the GUI.

I want it so they should do it. I don't care what anyone else wants

That's me done on this subject you will all be happy to know :lol: