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Gregg_Seipp

How's the navdata in Prepar3D?

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Hi all,

 

How's the navdata in Prepar3D.  Up to date? 

 

Gregg

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For me, this is one of the priority aspect to update in Prepar3d for all users that doesn't fly tubeliner where it is possible to update the navdata for the fms.

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To my understanding, Lockheed Martin have no plans to change navdata. It's not on its "road map" (just as Microsoft never did)  simply because third-parties can supply it.

.

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That'

 


Exactly as in FSX sadly.

 

That's awful.  They could at least make the core data updatable.

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That's awful.  They could at least make the core data updatable.

Actually no, they cannot...

 

...at least, not without creating a completely new, fully integrated database solution, as well as coming up with a new method by which airport facilities are generated. It would also be very, very costly both in terms of licensing new data, and the time investment in coding, debugging and testing such a radical change.

 

Such a task could be compared to you having to re-shelve all of the books of the NY Public Library after an earthquake had dumped them all off the shelves into a tumbled, jumbled mess and get them 100% correctly placed... :unknw:

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That website mentioned made my FS totally up to date. There's not much more I need now! I recommend to anyone. The only thing lacking is SID, STAR, etc

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Such a task could be compared to you having to re-shelve all of the books of the NY Public Library after an earthquake had dumped them all off the shelves into a tumbled, jumbled mess and get them 100% correctly placed... :unknw:

 

So what you're saying, is that they might as well go 64-bit at the same time then.

 

 

Right ?

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So what you're saying, is that they might as well go 64-bit at the same time then.
 
 
Right ?

 

Nice try Brian...LOL.

 

 

 


Actually no, they cannot...
 
...at least, not without creating a completely new, fully integrated database solution, as well as coming up with a new method by which airport facilities are generated. It would also be very, very costly both in terms of licensing new data, and the time investment in coding, debugging and testing such a radical change.
 
Such a task could be compared to you having to re-shelve all of the books of the NY Public Library after an earthquake had dumped them all off the shelves into a tumbled, jumbled mess and get them 100% correctly placed...

 

Hi Bill,

 

You're saying that they can't create the new data in the format that Microsoft created it?  Given that Alexis got his data updated by some website it seems doable that LM could do the same, no? (Haven't tried it yet.)  Or, are you saying that they can't provide a Navigraph interface like aircraft developers are doing?  (I'd, actually, prefer the latter solution if the data could be shared by all add-ons.)

 

Gregg

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What I'm saying that even with Herve Sors' sort-of-update, nothing is done to the airport facilities themselves, so that ILS/Loc frequencies aren't updated, runway configurations remain the same, and so forth. It is at best an incomplete bandaid solution.

 

I'm also saying that without changing the current "system" (what there is of it and such as it is), it would take a lot of money and a ton of time just to get the entire world somewhat "up-to-date," knowing fully well that when they were finished with the process it would still not be truly current!

 

If they were going to bother with this at all, they would need to design and code an entirely new system. One which would allow for using an available database that could be re-issued in cycles such that subscribers could keep their platform updated fully.

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If they were going to bother with this at all, they would need to design and code an entirely new system. One which would allow for using an available database that could be re-issued in cycles such that subscribers could keep their platform updated fully.

 

 

I see.  Well, I guess the thing someone has to think about is how long they can, practically, keep that old data without updating it.  

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What I'm saying that even with Herve Sors' sort-of-update, nothing is done to the airport facilities themselves, so that ILS/Loc frequencies aren't updated, runway configurations remain the same, and so forth. It is at best an incomplete bandaid solution.

 

I'm also saying that without changing the current "system" (what there is of it and such as it is), it would take a lot of money and a ton of time just to get the entire world somewhat "up-to-date," knowing fully well that when they were finished with the process it would still not be truly current!

 

If they were going to bother with this at all, they would need to design and code an entirely new system. One which would allow for using an available database that could be re-issued in cycles such that subscribers could keep their platform updated fully.

 

But it is possible to change some airport facilities using a tool provided by Herve. And most important you can update the core apx files. I have done it at several airports when I became aware that LOC/VOR frequencies have changed. At least it worked in FSX. This method is also useful to avoid conflicts with addon airports.

 

 

Harry

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You're saying that they can't create the new data in the format that Microsoft created it?

Of course they could create the nave data in the some way as Microsoft by collecting up-to-date for all airports and navaids etc. writing the data in .XML files and then compiling the .BGL as scenery files. The instructions are explained in given in the Compiling BGL section of the SDK for anyone to use. They could develop an new way of presenting the data. The real-data is published monthly and so would be out-of-data.

 

The question is why should Lockheed Martin do it do it - when those who want it can do for then themselves?

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The question is why should Lockheed Martin do it do it - when those who want it can do for then themselves?

 

Well, it would be nice if they would.  The way you find out something's wrong is by flying...which is a bit crappy.  I just flew the ILS into KSAN and the frequency was wrong...sigh...had to look it up in FSX while trying to keep my situational awareness.  Never mind the fact that I don't have any idea how to update this stuff.

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A solution to buffer this delay, it may be to roll up their sleeves and start to change something. A little at a time ... an FIR here, a FIR there you can have for example the airspaces updated.

 

Flying with the knowledge that you are simulating the reality is very rewarding.  B)
 

 

 

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In order for any solution to be practical, it would have to be coded such that it could be easily updated at least quarterly, if not every cycle. In addition, it would have to be a complete update of all relevant data, not just a piecemeal approach.

 

In other words, a native update program that would take an input file and then spend however long it takes to update the entire sim's database...

 

I don't remember the specifics, but I seem to recall one of the ACE's team mentioning that it took several days for them to build their initial set of .bgl files, and even after that many hours hand correcting only some of the most glaring errors...

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Yep a definitive solution would involve an updatable database and a new system. Could it be done by a third party dev?

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Yep a definitive solution would involve an updatable database and a new system. Could it be done by a third party dev?

Honestly, I cannot see how it would be possible. The current "system," such as it is and what there is of it, is deeply embedded into the foundational structure of the world model.

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Back to ground zero. The current/ same old system. I cant think of the last time I used the default navdata for anything. 6 or 7 yrs perhaps. Thata a way I dont have to worry about updating the default navdata. Navagraph and addon aircraft or ISG guage sets. If I find an airport out of alignment I just update its afcad.

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The scenery files work well and there's no reason why their contents can't be updated, even on a monthly basis. It's just a very big job of compiling all the world airport, navaid, boundaries etc. data into a format, so that a program can read the compiled data and produce a new set of scenery files. Making a program to do that is not too much of an issue.

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I don't remember the specifics, but I seem to recall one of the ACE's team mentioning that it took several days for them to build their initial set of .bgl files, and even after that many hours hand correcting only some of the most glaring errors...

 

When one thinks of how many months and years it takes to develop a flight simulator, several days doesn't sound so bad.  I wish they would update this stuff too.  I encounter this limitation every time I fly when I look at my chart and realize that I have to dial in an ils course that is almost always 2 or 3 degrees off, assuming that I happen to know what the difference between the chart says, and what FSX actually is.  It's just one of those annoying things that I had originally hoped that P3D would have addressed, and was kind of dissapointed about when I found out otherwise.

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The scenery files work well and there's no reason why their contents can't be updated, even on a monthly basis. It's just a very big job of compiling all the world airport, navaid, boundaries etc. data into a format, so that a program can read the compiled data and produce a new set of scenery files. Making a program to do that is not too much of an issue.

As a developer, why not do it?

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Making a program to do that is not too much of an issue.

The program already exists. It was used to compile the original .bgl files. The problem isn't even the time required to update those files.

 

The chief problems are manifold: first the size of these files and the costs of distribution, secondly there is the cost of licensing the raw data, and thirdly, what's in it for L-M? Who's going to pay for all this extra effort?

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 Who's going to pay for all this extra effort?

 

The customers, or course.  Certainly if I were a commercial entity purchasing P3D licenses for training purposes, I wouldn't want my students flying with 2004 era alignments. 

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