The earth has and will continue to change whether it is to our benefit or not. The Amazon basin was at one time a desert and the Sahara desert was at one time a lush green environment and mankind certainly had no hand in those transformations.

 

Sure. Still we shouldn't pretend that modern consumerist way of life would be any sustainable, we humans alone are the reason why earth is currently going through one of the fastest extinction waves in its history.

 

I believe humans definitely play a large part in current climate change, however it's difficult to estimate what its effects will be. Anyway, oil is eventually going to run out & coal has a lot of downsides so there's no excuse not to lower Co2 emissions & put more money into research for renewable sources of energy & nuclear power.

 

 

 

As Jim wrote to which I agree fully, it was extremely difficult to take global warming very serious last winter and early spring. It was brutal in this area. I guess that is why it went from global freeze to global warm to global change.

Increased amount of anomalies with weather are one of the things scientists believe climate change to cause. Individual years don't matter, long term development does. 

 

Indeed, it shouldn't be called global warming, rather climate change. Different areas experience different kind of changes. 

 

Anyway, of course climate change won't be stopped, most humans aren't ready to lower their quality of life for sake of common good. After all we are just bunch of apes who just happen to have particularly developed brain. No doubt our entire civilization as we know it will be in ruins in a couple of centuries.

 

 

 

This has already been debunked - after 9/11 and all the aircraft were grounded, temps rose an average 3 degrees C. Proven. Far from causing it, it is preventing it.

 

Come on, that's just laughable.

 

 

Come on, that's just laughable.

 

Less laughable than the idea of MMGW!!! What a crock...

 

Best regards,

Robin.

 

 

Less laughable than the idea of MMGW!!! What a crock...

 

There's plenty of evidence that supports MMGW, those who deny it all just want to avoid admitting their own moral responsibility over this. 

Of course you are free to pretend there's nothing wrong with modern day consumerism & capitalism, that doesn't change the actual realities of our world. Personally I don't want to live in a bubble world supported  by lies, I rather live in a real world, even if it isn't pretty. 

 

 

Its no surprise you dont see the value in the study of climate change in order to protect the future of generations to come. No surprise at all. No, there are some people who only care about their own current welfare

 

Wow. Just...wow.

 

 

Of course you are free to pretend there's nothing wrong with modern day consumerism & capitalism

 

What do you suggest? See - not about MMGW at all...

 

(Really, don't answer that - we won't agree, and I really can't be bothered arguing this anymore).

 

Best regards,

Robin.

In a Galaxy far far away! . . . . . . . while they are going there maybe we could tax them for polluting outer space. Scratch that, they might turn around and come back just to pay their bill.

:LMAO:  Good idea!

 

The way I look at all this global warming hype: it is simply used to justify more taxes and create more laws, if global warming was real (and it is not), so what? In another 100 years or less, Planet Earth will still be here and we will have found another planet to move to in case all of the global warming threats became true. For sure, within another 200 years, we will definitely be doing a lot of space travel and this planet will be used just to visit the old ancestors or those who cannot travel. I simply cannot see the justifications for creating more laws and taxing our citizens around the world. It boggles my mind that the so-called "scientists" are now looking at the threat of contrails. I suspect it is so they can add a federal or government tax on the price of air travel or make aircraft manufacturers spend billions to find a way to end contrails. The government needs more money? What for? Bigger offices, more employees, and nice limousines? I think so and I rest my case.

 

Best regards,

Indeed, it shouldn't be called global warming, rather climate change. Different areas experience different kind of changes.

 

Since you insist: Consider that if all mankind had never existed on this planet or were suddenly removed from this planet, you claim climate change would have never existed or would cease? Wrong!

 

Jim, again I could not agree with you more! The people who fall for this and then, as I mentioned, cherry pick what to believe based on some other cherry picked so called facts is bad enough let alone the puffed up attitude and demeaning insinuations that we are out to destroy the planet. I have noticed that people like us continue to listen with at least an open mind. Unlike the proponents who typically become entrenched and unquestioning.

 

Well, enough of this, I don't need the frustration, that is what my wife is for and she is very good at it!

 

Regards,

Wow there is a staggering amount of anti-science on here for a Aviation thread. 

 

Global warming, the name that is, was a mistake, it's far more appropriately called Climate change and yes anthropogenic climate change is a real thing that is happening.  The data is available for all to see; very simply we are in a inter-glacial period, we are actually overdue for another ice age, it is entirely possible the activity of man is helping in this regard, there are also a number of issues surrounding the sun.  But really the science is pretty solid on this.

 

Calling out qualified scientists with useless data about the 9/11 grounding seeing a 3c drop, i honestly don't even know how to respond to that.  That data period is MUCH to small to see anything other than local variations.

 

To the people who state that the climate has seen rises and falls in temperature before; you are correct, it was perhaps one of these rises that caused the P-T extinction event, we could well be setting a course for the biggest extinction event yet.

 

I imagine the people denying Climate Change would also deny the link between CFC and Ozone depletion???

 

It's not important to preserve the environment is it?  We can just move to another Earth planet...oh wait, we CAN'T!!! 

:LMAO:  Good idea!

The way I look at all this global warming hype: it is simply used to justify more taxes and create more laws, if global warming was real (and it is not), so what? In another 100 years or less, Planet Earth will still be here and we will have found another planet to move to in case all of the global warming threats became true. For sure, within another 200 years, we will definitely be doing a lot of space travel and this planet will be used just to visit the old ancestors or those who cannot travel. I simply cannot see the justifications for creating more laws and taxing our citizens around the world. It boggles my mind that the so-called "scientists" are now looking at the threat of contrails. I suspect it is so they can add a federal or government tax on the price of air travel or make aircraft manufacturers spend billions to find a way to end contrails. The government needs more money? What for? Bigger offices, more employees, and nice limousines? I think so and I rest my case.

Best regards,

 

Oh my...please tell me that you are joking?

 

Do you have any concept of how big the Galaxy is?  The nearest star (after the Sun) to us is 4 light years away, assuming that there was Earth like planets circling it our fastest ever Earth made object would take 60,000 years to reach it!  At the speed of light (which according to current science cannot be achieved by any object with a mass) would take 4 years, seriously, we may well invent new technologies (nothing on the horizon) but we still haven't found (with certainty) any other planets like the Earth.  

 

I can only assume that the people on this thread are being sarcastic because i honestly don't believe that there are people in this day that seriously are this ignorant of science, for me it's actually physically distressing.

I can't believe this site is so right-wing. An amazing willingness to deny scientific fact.

Grown men fighting about something they know nothing about... on both sides. This may as well be an argument about religion.

 

Until I have practical experience in climate research, or can claim to have read 10,000 pages of theses from both perspectives, I will refrain from interjecting what can only be an OPINION on the subject.

 

:Peace:

For sure, within another 200 years, we will definitely be doing a lot of space travel and this planet will be used just to visit the old ancestors or those who cannot travel.

 

That's some unwarranted optimism right there. You are assuming that humankind's development is some kind of a straight, rising line towards better. Well, I can tell you, it's not, there have been times of backward development in our history, such as in Europe after Roman Empire collapsed. 

 

During last 100 years this planet has seen two world wars, a huge rise in population levels, huge increase in amount of resources we consume, an massive spike of everything. This simply isn't sustainable and it's perfectly possible in 200 years our whole civilization as we know it today has collapsed. Personally I see it rather likely in fact considering the amount of money spent on weapons versus that spent on space travel & scientific advancements. How could a specie that's more interested in developing more effective ways of killing its members possibly avoid destroying itself sooner or later? Humankind's endless greed makes it very self-destructive.

 

Also, like Wotan stated the distances between planets are absolutely huge. It's rather unlikely we would manage to find a planet suitable for humans anywhere "near" & terraforming is something we simply aren't going to be capable of any time soon even theoretically. 

 

Since you insist: Consider that if all mankind had never existed on this planet or were suddenly removed from this planet, you claim climate change would have never existed or would cease? Wrong!

 

No, climate has always changed. However most of the time changes have been rather gradual, not what we are seeing now. 

 

Let me put this way: It's a fact the levels of Co2 & methane etc in our atmosphere have been rising fast since industrialization started. Do you really think it won't have any kind of an effect on anything? Do you think we can just change the very composition of our atmosphere without it having any effect on climate? 

 

To me even common sense tells you just can't emit huge amount of Co2 into our atmosphere without it having some kind of an effect on climate. 

 

 

I can only assume that the people on this thread are being sarcastic because i honestly don't believe that there are people in this day that seriously are this ignorant of science, for me it's actually physically distressing.
 

 

Yeah, anti-science attitudes are surprisingly common nowadays. Too many people just ignore whatever evidence doesn't suit their world view. 

 

This is one of the reasons why I predict quick end to our current civilization. Conservative, irrational forces are on the rise in western world, possibly due to shallow commercialism which has effectively destroyed things that used to be our core values - freedom, democracy and rationalism. 

Wow there is a staggering amount of anti-science on here for a Aviation thread.

I'm looking for the scientific evidence. So are a lot of other extremely intelligent people. Please to not try to insult my intelligence. Let's try to stay on topic with the contrails global warming theory. Okay?

 

Best regards,

Until I have practical experience in climate research, or can claim to have read 10,000 pages of theses from both perspectives, I will refrain from interjecting what can only be an OPINION on the subject.

 

oh ok, i hope that you take the same stance should you ever get an illness or require an operation.  No point in having the pesky heart bypass unless you study cardiology right?  Or perhaps and i'm just guessing here, you'll trust the qualified people who are treating you and the scientists who developed the treatments????

 

It's not about trusting politicians, i don't.  It's about believing what 1000's of independent scientists are telling us.  If you aren't willing to trust their advice on Climate Change then why trust their advice on anything including medicine?

I guess that is why it went from global freeze to global warm to global change.

To me it is also more an economic promotion program for buying new cars, planes(!), refrigerators and other electrical power consumers. But it is for a good reason, especially when it comes to replace old coal, oil, gas and nuclear power plants. Green energy is for sure the way to go, but claiming "global warming/change" is done mainly by humans is IMO a well promoted lobby speech.

 

The zenit of the last ice age being about 22,000 years ago does not necessarily mean that we are at the end or beginning of a cold or warm period. It can continue getting colder while we might be thinking of being at the beginning of a hot period. Sure, the cold/hot periods are oscillating but they are not a sine wave.

The recorded weather data base (fixed values) they use for assuming higher temperatures caused by industrialization just covers a bit more than the last 110 years. That is just the period where industrialization emerged.

So that measurement principle must be questioned as insufficient. 

It is like measuring higher speeds of a car along an unknown hill profile. You don't know the steepness before or aft the current measurement.

BTW, last year I read about a scientific article which stated that through the last 15 years rising temperatures are actually not provable. This would mean that the period after the year 2000 has stagnant or even falling temperatures of which some lobbyists say that they are due to first environmental improvements.

This is, IMO, a prove for the "unknown hill profile" dilemma...

 

Greetings,

Claus

 

 

I'm looking for the scientific evidence. So are a lot of other extremely intelligent people.

 

Good. It's a fact there's plenty of scientific evidence that supports the theory of a climate change that's at least partially caused by human activity. Only a small minority of scientists think climate change doesn't exist or that human activity plays no part in it. 

 

I hope you examine this evidence independently instead of just judging it as a rubbish excuse for governments to increase taxes.