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Mithras

Bizjets - Learn to Love Them

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I've only been at this hobby since November, and I realize that I don't really like airliners. Like alot of folks, I find the prospect of sitting in front of a cloudscape for 4-8 hours boring, and I really don't want to try and work out how an FMC works.

 

That said, I love airports. I have UK2000s Xtreme aitports for the UK detailed exquisitly, and with UT2 and Audio Environment, an airport in FSX is as exhiliarating and exciting as any in real life. Grass strips and regional airports are OK, but nothing beats the tension of taxing out to the runway of a big airport past innumerable fins, airport trucks whizzing around, jets, being pushed back, a line of jets descending the glidescope...

 

So I discovered a so far negelected plane in my FSX hanger - the bizjet, the default Learjet, to be precise. Bizjets are basically mini-airliners, flying into nearly every big airport, but they don't follow prescribed routes. Bizjets can fly for an hour, or half an hour, or for three. I've been doing a bit of You Tube research, watching a few bizjet documentaries ... they are used as air taxis, corporate shuttles, government shuttles, used by task forces, agencies, NGOs, celebrities, buisnessmen... I'm sure quite a few more.

 

So the bizjet is getting quite a bit of flying time at the moment, and I am particularly interested in global flights, matching my flights with events in the news. I flew the ebola stricken missionary from Monrovia to Madrid in an air ambulance, and the Palestinian envoys from Gaza to the Cairo peace talks last week.

 

Anyway, just thought I'd share my new revelation! I used to hate bizjets ('flying limos', 'rich mens toys'), now I'm pretty keen! I can see myself flying into Fly Tampa's awesome Dubai quite a bit ;)

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I totally agree. But even the default lear (if done by a good developer) would have an FMS.

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I think He is getting more that the function of a smaller BizJet and what it means to Him. The use of something smaller, fast, and can still play with the big boys in the big boy house, but still have short enough flights to keep Him interested.

For some....setting up for 45 minutes before a flight of 4 or more hours with a max of around 25-35 minutes hand flying is mundane.

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Hate to say I agree.....but I think I do (with original post).

 

Stan

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"Bizjets can fly for an hour, or half an hour, or for three"  

 

Its pretty difficult to to favor a biz jet over an airliner for the reasons of an FMC as they are used in both or flight times as they are by nature of the jet engine going to be very similar

 

In fact flight planning will take longer as there wont be a dispatcher available

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Well, we are in luck, Paul! I too like the biz jets for eating up a trip of 300-500 miles. From cold and dark to landing is around an hour, sometimes a little less, sometimes a little more, but still high and fast and within the amount of time I typically have available to fly in the RW.

 

The reason I say we are in luck is biz jets seem to be the "new" focus of aircraft development. The Hawker from Caranedo (imminent), the Phenom from Carenado (great fun to fly), the purported Eaglesoft updates to their Citations, all are good signs for the biz jet future. You can even stretch things and say the highly anticipated Piaggio 180 Avanti from MilViz is a biz jet, and I could swore I saw mention of an updated MU-2.

 

All good!

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I've only been at this hobby since November, and I realize that I don't really like airliners. Like alot of folks, I find the prospect of sitting in front of a cloudscape for 4-8 hours boring, and I really don't want to try and work out how an FMC works.

Okay, but most business jets have an FMC or variant thereof. So I'm lost by the FMC theory. Unless of course you are using the default Learjet, in which case that's a different story. But if you try say the Eaglesoft Citation X, you'll find an FMC there.

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Just Flight already have a Hawker 800 XP, with a simplified FMC and mostly steam gauges. I  can imagine Carenado's looking better, but I doubt it would have much more in terms of systems depth. The Xtreme Prototyes Learjet 20 series is also well worth a look, and doesn't have an FMC, although I believe the freeware Honeywell FMC will work with it. There's also a freeware Dassault Falcon 50. The VC is only average, but it's a dream to fly.

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I  can imagine Carenado's looking better, but I doubt it would have much more in terms of systems depth.

 

Heya Paul, 

 

   Surprisingly, the Carendo version is delayed because they are going to implement a full-scale (not sure how deep, though) "from scratch a PROLINE21 with NAVIGRAPH capabilities." They are clearly headed in the right direction!

 

John

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I have always loved the idea of having the speed of an airliner and the ability to operate out of small airports. The problem for me is that I have yet to see a business jet that has the complexity and fidelity of a pmdg simulation. Does anyone have any suggestions? For now I have satisfied that craving with the pmdg 737 in a bbj repaint but even still it cannot fly into the smallest of airports.

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Lionheart is working on a Lear 24 which is looking really nice from the preview shots.  The Lear 24 has no FMC and is a pure classic bizjet,

 

http://www.lionheartcreations.com/LJ24B.html

 

 

The Lotus L-39C and A2A P-51 civil are nice alternatives to biz jets.  The beauty of the Mustang is that you can take it high with biz jet speeds, or take it low and still go pretty fast, throwing in some aerobatcs along the way for some fun.

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I think it's really a shame we have yet to see a bizjet model that has reached realism heights of some of the airliner products for FSX/P3D like PMDG, Majestic, etc.  I would kill for a high fidelity version of a Lear 45 or Lear 60 not to mention a Global Express or G-V but there are few biz jet companies out there that seem willing to work alongside a developer to create a really realistic product.  I know Wilco has a partnership with Dassault, but sadly I don't think too highly of Wilco.  There releases and product support have been spotty at best.  Hopefully the Eaglesoft Citation X is as good on P3D as it is on FSX.

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ESDG Citation X is still my favorite of all time. I still fly that thing 2x a week.

Too bad they're not updating that bird. I'll still fly it anyway :>)

 

Mark

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The problem for me is that I have yet to see a business jet that has the complexity and fidelity of a pmdg simulation.

This is because developers claim there is no market for such in-depth bizjet simulation, invested $$ could not be recouped.

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RW air ambulance/corporate pilot here, I would drop some coin on highly detailed biz jets. The most promising one in the pipeline right now is the LE Simulations/Eaglesoft Citation 2. Maybe an updated Beechjet from Eaglesoft with a real FMS? How about a decent Lear 60 or Challenger 300? Drool...

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On FMCs, I should have said ... I'm not averse to them being in the cockpit, but I'm not up to scratch to use one. Instead I use my iPad as a moving map GPS, with heading info, TTG, distance to go, and digital readouts, which picks up the Flight Plan and displays as a magenta line. So that is my 'FMC' which sits nicely in my cockpit setup.

 

My real point was that the bizjet seems to me like an airliner that can get away with short trips and fly into both big and small airports.

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My real point was that the bizjet seems to me like an airliner that can get away with short trips and fly into both big and small airports.

And some nice fast turboprop can do it even better :Big Grin:

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And some nice fast turboprop can do it even better :Big Grin:

Heya Michael, 

 

Not so sure about that. I have the TBM 850, purportedly the fastest turboprop, and the Phenom 100, both from Carenado. I have been doing a European capital city tour, and the TBM, across 5 flights, averages 238.4 kts flying speed. That is take-off to landing, full stop. The Phenom averaged 292.8 kts, averaged across 6 flights.

 

Now, these are arithmetic means, but I tend to choose the aircraft that will get me from point A to B in 1 hour. So, the flight time is roughly the same for both aircraft, with a slide nod to the TBM offering shorter flights.

 

What I have found is that the Phenom, not really a hot-rod in the grand scope of biz jets, climbs a lot faster than the TBM, and because of that enjoys a flight level about 10K feet above the TBM. This could account for some of the difference, but not much. 

 

That being said, a true hot-rod biz jet (ala a Citation or Lear) would smoke a turbo-prop. Nonetheless, I do enjoy flying the TBM when the flight fits!

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Well John, I understand but I beg to differ - I am applying real-world criteria, as well as my own criteria (but of course), and not what

we do in the sim. I am also driven by consideration that a single-engine turboprop would be within my financial reach to get rated on, jet never.

 

TBM will get you faster from say Chicago to Florida - it can do it nonstop while your Phenom will require a refueling stop.

If you are flying single-pilot in Phenom - anytime you are above FL350 you will have to wear an oxygen mask - a very, very uncomfortable proposition,

(and practically intolerable for someone who had to shell out millions for this jet) so you are practically forced to hire another pilot - things get very

expensive very quickly. Actually as one Phenom pilot paradoxically found out hiring another pilot is cheaper than paying exorbitant insurance premium

for the privilage of being a single pilot on the Phenom. Not being a single pilot would ruin things for me a bit I must admit. In other words - there are multiple

roadblocks thrown at you if you insist on flying a jet.

 

Also, in my opinion the terrain looks much more attractive from FL300 than from FL400 and there is additional benefit - airspace

below FL300 is underutilized in the US, much easier to find flexibility in the ATC system, easy to fly direct, you are not competing for limited

airspace with commercial jets. I grant you that Phenom can climb faster and be above weather quicker - but in my "dreams" I am not "flying" TBM

to meet rigorous business schedule, I am flying for fun, perhaps to vacation destinations, to do say scuba dving in some remote islands

in the Bahamas, etc.

 

Also TBM will get me to much smaller airports than Phenom, some of the prettiest in this country.

 

And this all before you even start comparing operating costs.

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This is why I like the Dash 8. 45-90 minute flights, going from large airports into small ones and vice versa, ridiculously short landing distance, lots of manual goodies so you're not staring at clouds, you're actually planning your flight at cruise because cruise isn't very long and if ATC gives you a vector rather than letting you follow your flight plan exactly down (which will always happen in controlled space in the UK far as I can tell) you need to do all that wonderful mental math about figuring out where your TOD will be, how fast to go to ensure you do constant descent and end up where you want to be. No autothrottle, half useless VNAV, and its high thin wing makes it lively on finals when you're in gusty crosswinds, useless yaw damper that requires you to actually kick some rudder into your turns and takeoffs.

 

To me the Dash is the perfect compromise between airliner and relaxed VFR. Fly out of Birmingham, into Isle of Man, out to Glasgow, up to Inverness, back down to Belfast City, down all the way to Jersey. You can do that in one night if you like in the same time a guy in a 737 would take to get from NY to LA. To me the Dash 8 is the perfect mate for all that lovely UK2000 scenery.

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That pesky real-world stuff, always getting the final word...    :lol:

 

In that context yes, the TBM is the superior craft. The Phenom is a little fuel-pig, that's for sure. And I was certainly unaware of the oxygen mask requirement above FL350, as I have zero experience (nor inclination, at my age and amount of debt) of ever becoming a RW pilot.

 

But, since my personal real world requirements limit me to an hour flight or so, the little pig will do. But, as you can see from the flight counts, I do enjoy my TBM. Of course, I enjoy my Legacy more, but that is a completely different story.

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That pesky real-world stuff, always getting the final word...   
 

Yeah, sorry for this real-world slant, I was simming for a very long time then returned back to real-world flying and it hit me (as if I were punched by a heavy-weight boxer) how real-world flying is dissimilar from simming, completely lost interest in 'gaming' simulation, occasional do fire Garmin's G1000 simulator to sharpen my real-world skills.

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I think the real point that the OP is making is simply that he prefers the simpler, less complex approach to flying - which is fine.    

 

It's not really relevent to "airline vs bizjet" flying IMHO, because as others have said, Bizjets (certainly in the modern age) have FMCs and in many cases (such as the Citation X) just as much complexity and systems as an airliner.   The difference is in the missions and flying.    Also as said, bizjet operators often have more complexity as there is often no advanced planning, so they need to do dispatch work to; NOTAMs, weather, planning, logistics, etc, etc.

If you're not interested in FMCs that's cool, as the default GPS will basically get you there too. What I would say though is that investing some time in learning a realistic FMC operation is highly rewarding.

Best bizjets available so far, in my opinion:-

- Flight 1 Cessna Mustang
- Eaglesoft Citation X 2.0

both are complex, fully featured aircraft.   For the simpler taste, I recommend the XP Prototypes Lear 24.

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how real-world flying is dissimilar from simming

 

Kind of wandering off topic here, but I have a friend that was (operative word, was) twin-engine rated, owned his aircraft (through his company), but just stopped flying. He really hated the increasingly draconian requirements and restrictions for flying, not to mention the increasing costs. And the divorce that cost him his plane, but that is another story!


 

 


Best bizjets available so far, in my opinion:-

- Flight 1 Cessna Mustang
- Eaglesoft Citation X 2.0

both are complex, fully featured aircraft.   For the simpler taste, I recommend the XP Prototypes Lear 24.

 

Heya Craig, 

 

I too enjoyed the Mustang, but it is a no-go in the P3D world. The Eaglesoft team is working on a Citation update (don't remember the specific model) and it promises to be at the head of the class when it become available. I enjoy flying the eXtreme Prototypes Lear jets quite a bit, but I really (REALLY) try to avoid cycling through the interior cabin view: that girl is scary!  :lol:

 

Will have to see how Lionheart Creations Lear 24 turns out - should be released soon.

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