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~Craig~

Citation II S550 - The (potential) bugs thread

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I thought that as we all get to know our CII's, we could post any possible bugs is this thread.

 

Autopilot

So far, I've noticed the same issues with the autopilot as we had with the PC-12 when released.  ALT, ALT SEL, VS and IAS all seem to get a bit messed up, especially when first engaging the AP.     It is possible, for example, to have both VS and IAS mode engaged, which would never be possible on the real aircraft.    

 

I can't find a way to adjust VS other than using a default key assignment. Adjusting the altitude only works using the mouse on the gauge on the screen - key commands don't work for this (same as in PC-12), which is frustrating as the clickspot for adjusting altitude is very small, so very fiddly when in flight.          

 

When certain AP modes are turned on, the selected altitude disappears from the gauge altogether.

 

All the issues I had on my first flight were with the vertical/dynamic modes of the AP.     All worked fine with HDG, NAV, APPR, etc.

 

As already pointed out in another thread, the Altitude selector shows "Vertical Speed Hold" on the tool tips in FSX (definite bug).

 

 

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t is possible, for example, to have both VS and IAS mode engaged, which would never be possible on the real aircraft.

 

I don't have this model, but if their previous offerings are anything to go by, systems-wise it's just a default FSX plane dressed up in a pretty skin.   So "IAS" probably means autothrottle... 

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I don't have this model, but if their previous offerings are anything to go by, systems-wise it's just a default FSX plane dressed up in a pretty skin.   So "IAS" probably means autothrottle... 

 

No, that was true up until their PC-12, but that aircraft (and this one), have a true IAS mode that adjusts pitch, and no longer 'fudges' the FSX autothrottle.  

 

It holds speed perfectly, but the only issue with it is, that when you engage it, the briefly 'levels' the plane, and then goes back to the airspeed it was at when you engaged the mode.    It's annoying because apart from that strange temporary 'level', it really does a great job at holding speed . adjusting pitch.

 

IAS mode aside, it does indeed use the default AP.    The IAS mode is courtesy of a XML gauge.     Bert Pieke did a great job of patching up the AP in the PC-12, so I'm hoping he's reading this :wink:

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...have a true IAS mode that adjusts pitch, and no longer 'fudges' the FSX autothrottle.

 

Good to know.  I might have a look at this one (and the PC-12) after all.

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If you get the PC-12, send Bert Pieke a PM and ask for his AP gauge overhaul.   It literally transforms the AP and makes it almost 100% as functional as the real unit.

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EHSI values partially obscured... and the top half of directional values are kinda hidden behind the rest of the gauge and they come to the aircraft heading.  That's the most annoying thing for me

 

c550ehsi.jpg

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Yes me too Ryan.  To be honest, I had wondered whether it was a Fonts issue on my own machine, until I saw you mention it earlier.

 

Bit of a "typical Carenado quality issue" eh?   :lol:

 

PS.... the Heading Bug could do with being a bit more detailed too...... it has no 'cue mark', so is currently just a big rectangular blob.

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I also noticed the 2d pop up of the FMS.. the box size constraints are messed up... unreadable due to that. Anyone else have this??

 

Best, Jeff

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No, that was true up until their PC-12, but that aircraft (and this one), have a true IAS mode that adjusts pitch, and no longer 'fudges' the FSX autothrottle.  

 

IAS mode aside, it does indeed use the default AP.    The IAS mode is courtesy of a XML gauge.     Bert Pieke did a great job of patching up the AP in the PC-12, so I'm hoping he's reading this :wink:

 

Bert is reading this, but does not have the airplane..

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Update on FMS issue... I just loaded the Citation in DX9 mode as I was using DX10 earlier, and the issue disappeared. Interesting. Anyway, I thought someone might like to have this info if they experience the same in DX10. 

 

Best, Jeff

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In trying to familiarize myself with VC I noticed there doesn't seem to be much in the way of a fuel management system.  I know the levers on the throttle console essentially act as fuel cut-offs, but even single engine Cessnas have a fuel on/off and usually a crossfeed capability.   Can it be that the real Citation doesn't........??

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Well, had to go to the Eaglesoft bird to locate the fuel selector in this one.......in my VC it's tucked behind the Circuit Breaker panel such that it appears to be unusable.  Glad to know there is one I guess....... B)

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Ahhh, shooks!   :lol:

 

Agreed. Wonder if he'd (Bert) be open to a bit of bribery :P ...

 

Hhhmmnnn....  :wink:

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In trying to familiarize myself with VC I noticed there doesn't seem to be much in the way of a fuel management system.  I know the levers on the throttle console essentially act as fuel cut-offs, but even single engine Cessnas have a fuel on/off and usually a crossfeed capability.   Can it be that the real Citation doesn't........??

 

Dear Ronfor1,

 

This is a quote from Airplanedriver.net:

 

"The fuel system on the 500 series Citations is a simple one by most standards.  The Citation has two "Wet Wing" type fuel tanks, one left, and one right.  During normal operation each engine is supplied with fuel from it's own tank.  The left tank feeds the left engine, and the right tank feeds the right engine.  The left and right fuel tanks are mirror images of each other.  They are connected by two crossfeed valves and a crossfeed manifold allowing one or both engines to draw fuel only from the tank desired when crossfeed is selected.  These valves are DC powered and will remain in their last position if Main DC Bus power is lost.  Each tank has one 28 Volt DC electrically driven fuel boost pump, a primary ejector pump, and two secondary ejector pumps.

 

Lets assume that we wish to use fuel from only the left tank. Select "LH Tank" with the crossfeed selector.  This will do the following:

        1.  The left electric fuel pump will come ON and

            the right electric fuel pump will turn off.

        2.  The left primary ejector pump will remain ON.

        3.  The crossfeed valves will open.

        4.  In 3 sec the RH motive flow shutoff valve will close, disabling the RH primary ejector pump.

 

This results in 2 fuel pumps operating in the left tank and no fuel pumps operating in the right tank.  The left tank will then supply fuel to any engines that are running.  A small amount of fuel (very small) will transfer from the left to the right tank by going thru the crossfeed valves, the right fuel filter, and into the right tank via the right secondary ejector pumps.  In flight this transfer is not significant.  It may be used on the ground, however,  to equalize the fuel in the tanks prior to start.  This should be done only with an external power source, as the battery may become discharged.

 To stop the crossfeed, turn the crossfeed switch to the off, (vertical) position.  This will do the following:

 1.  Remove power from the motive flow shutoff valve, allowing it to open.

 2.  Close the crossfeed valves.

 3.  Turn off the boost pump that was turned on when we first selected crossfeed."

 

Hope that helps some.

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Agreed. Wonder if he'd (Bert) be open to a bit of bribery :P ...

 

Hhhmmnnn....  :wink:

 

We could all club together and buy Bert a Citation II ......... Sim world not real world Bert - you're not that good!  :lol:

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No thanks... a dumbed down FMC is not my cup of tea..

 

If Carenado steps up, and offers GTN integration, I'll have a look  B)

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Bummer, but I understand completely :wink: . If Carenado thinks these machines have never been retro-fitted for newer avionics then they need to get out more. We see them all the time. This is one big "boat" they missed.

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 1. Crossfeed valve In Transit light not extinguishing

 2. No gyro pressure

 3. No temp controls (cabin stayed at 65 degrees with both auto and manual temp control)

 4. Used the ENG FIRE switch to shut down left engine (which shuts down left side fuel, hydraulics, etc) and no master warning lit when the offending red system lights illuminated.

 5. Could not get the engines to torque out on N1 on takeoff. Throttles are crammed and it might have been pulling 100%. Some altitudes/temps require more than 100%.

 6. The power reminder gauge is not changeable for take off power.

 7. T/R Emer Stow Switches are inop

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1. Not able to press the STD BARO knob to set to standard pressure on the Altimeter. (It appears unclickable - Let me know if it is just me)

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Curious my S550 burns fuel but Eng is not runing, afer a while fuel level drops from 100% to 97%. Set the ENG in reverse (still off) then FF is zero.

 

My ISG show my a fluel flow with 165kg per ENG.

 

Cheers

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1. Pressurization system is not working properly...... You can't adjust cruise altitude or landing altitude. None of the knobs on the pressurization panel work. Otherwise the basic function is there...the big needle is supposed to chase the little needle when pressurizing.

 

2. Autopilot. Already mentioned above. Their king air 90 autopilot while not perfect is not too bad...maybe it could somehow be ported over. In the interest of simplicity perhaps get rid of IAS mode, get the VS mode to work properly - it shouldn't always revert to 500'/min when selected as it should acquire the current climb rate or decent rate when selected....they both need to work with ALT SEL mode and the Altitude Selector should not disappear when various selections are made.

 

3.FMS...not much good can be said about it other than it's pretty but the fuel page gives lots of info but it falls down after that. Integration of the GTN750 would be a great addition

 

Summary.....On the whole I like this aircraft. I hope some of the improvements listed above will come in a future patch. This aircraft has a good foundation and the points above would make it a great aircraft.

 

Dave

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1. Pressurization system is not working properly...... You can't adjust cruise altitude or landing altitude. None of the knobs on the pressurization panel work. Otherwise the basic function is there...the big needle is supposed to chase the little needle when pressurizing. . . 

Once airborne it works for me (kinda), but not on the ground.  Also, the pressurization scale seems off - any given altitude / cabin altitude results in much lower press differential than red-line.  Cabin altitudes in the 30's seem way to high.  Looks almost as if the scale is off a turbo-prop.  Default cabin climb rate is 500fpm.  Impossible to adjust in flight unless you back off the throttles - not wise while climbing . . .

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1. Pressurization system is not working properly...... You can't adjust cruise altitude or landing altitude. None of the knobs on the pressurization panel work. Otherwise the basic function is there...the big needle is supposed to chase the little needle when pressurizing.

 

The controller is working. I have used it twice now. Grab the knob and move your mouse left.

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It does not work on the ground at start up for me - period.  If I get airborne, it works, either by dragging or using the mouse wheel.  If get back on the ground, it continues to work - strange.

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