Citation II S550 - The (potential) bugs thread

[~Craig~ 10]

My first observations conclude that there's much work still to do.

 

The "autopilot" is a bit of a mess as everyone has observed already - altitudes and IAS control isn't there in any meaningful way.

So far as I can see,  the system will hold a track but nothing more.( I haven't tried an ILS approach.)

 

The engine is underpowered , appears to be excessively laggy and I query some engine fan readings.  

The take off roll is long and climb rates are too poor.

At the same time fuel usage is too great making anything like the theoretical range of 1900 nms unachievable.

 

I'm sure that a patch or two will fix things but for the moment it's more money down the drain. 

 

I agree that engine performance seems way off - the takeoff roll (even at light loads) can be hair-raisingly long!! ...... the nose just does not seem to want to come up (even with very liberal trim settings!).   And although early climb rates seem ok, they soon drop off leaving very poor rates as you get even to just 10,000+.

 

Engine readings are definitely way off.    The ITT exceeding even the gauge limit on every engine start for example.

 

It is, I have to say, the usual Carenado sloppy standards and poor attention to detail on aspects other than the visuals (which are nice).

 

I've come to the conclusion that I vastly prefer the Alabeo branded products which draw on Carenado's strengths, and which (generally) remain simple as aircraft, and often feel a lot more convincing and realistic that these 'complex' Carenado aircraft.

 

I doubt very much I will buy into any more Carenado models and products; only the simpler Alebeo renditions.  For more complex aircraft, I just believe Carenado aren't up to the job, and other developers do a far better job, without all the repetitive, tedious bugs we see on every Carenado release.

[Guest]

There does seem to be a bug at higher altitudes.  Reference specs indicate 43,000 ceiling and a 35,000 cruise ... I couldn't go above 31,000.

 

Hopefully Carenado will take a look and come up with a patch so the aircraft is closer to it's rated performance specs.

 

Cheers, Rob.

[Bert Pieke 7,585]

I'm not sure what exactly is missing in the autopilot, but I find that I can turn on FD, dial in a target altitude, climb with ALT SEL and adjust VS with the Pitch wheel.  All that works.

 

Also, the autopilot will follow a GPS course in NAV mode ( I use the GTN750 ) and also follow an LPV approach in APR mode.

 

Have not tried IAS mode yet..

[Bob650 31]

I agree that engine performance seems way off - the takeoff roll (even at light loads) can be hair-raisingly long!! ...... the nose just does not seem to want to come up (even with very liberal trim settings!). And although early climb rates seem ok, they soon drop off leaving very poor rates as you get even to just 10,000+.

 

 

 

Engine readings are definitely way off. The ITT exceeding even the gauge limit on every engine start for example.

 

 

 

It is, I have to say, the usual Carenado sloppy standards and poor attention to detail on aspects other than the visuals (which are nice).

 

 

 

I've come to the conclusion that I vastly prefer the Alabeo branded products which draw on Carenado's strengths, and which (generally) remain simple as aircraft, and often feel a lot more convincing and realistic that these 'complex' Carenado aircraft.

 

 

 

I doubt very much I will buy into any more Carenado models and products; only the simpler Alebeo renditions. For more complex aircraft, I just believe Carenado aren't up to the job, and other developers do a far better job, without all the repetitive, tedious bugs we see on every Carenado release.

 

Craig Bennet

 

 

I agree. Of course these early Citations were not a Saturn V or even a Learjet, but going by book values this thing is way off in it's performance envelope. The ITT to fan speed ratio is way off, climb performance is way off even given being the pig that it is RW. This thing needs a serious performance tweak.

 

Bert: Thanks again for the GTN install info, it fits nicely there. Despite it's other faults, it does fly a nice coupled approach.

[Guest BeaverDriver]

I agree that engine performance seems way off - the takeoff roll (even at light loads) can be hair-raisingly long!! ...... the nose just does not seem to want to come up (even with very liberal trim settings!).   And although early climb rates seem ok, they soon drop off leaving very poor rates as you get even to just 10,000+.

 

Engine readings are definitely way off.    The ITT exceeding even the gauge limit on every engine start for example.

 

It is, I have to say, the usual Carenado sloppy standards and poor attention to detail on aspects other than the visuals (which are nice).

 

I've come to the conclusion that I vastly prefer the Alabeo branded products which draw on Carenado's strengths, and which (generally) remain simple as aircraft, and often feel a lot more convincing and realistic that these 'complex' Carenado aircraft.

 

I doubt very much I will buy into any more Carenado models and products; only the simpler Alebeo renditions.  For more complex aircraft, I just believe Carenado aren't up to the job, and other developers do a far better job, without all the repetitive, tedious bugs we see on every Carenado release.

 

Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at Craig. Good post. I keep reading lists upon lists of bugs by folks, then they say that overall they are happy with the airplane. Happy about what? Paying top dollar for something that takes a good screenshot, but which about 80% of the claimed features either don't work at all or don't work properly? And, I keep reading about the hopes for a service patch. Yes, they will issue a SP, but I'll bet you (unless history is NOT a good indicator) it will be a few graphics things fixed (like not being able to read the numbers on the EADI - the only way that could have been missed in the final inspection would be if it was never inspected at all - so what did he do - say "Release it anyway - nobody will notice???"). We need a full FDE and engine dynamics fix, but I can practically guarantee you that ain't gonna happen. So what are we so "overall happy" about? No wonder Carenado does this to us on each release. They don't HAVE to do better.

 

Sorry if some found this offensive, but I'm really tired of these guys getting a free pass for shoddy, lousy workmanship and bugs that we see from release to release to release. Anyway, guess that's my last word on this airplane. Enjoy. I'm going to TRY and fix mine so it's at least somewhat believable, but like you Craig, I seriously doubt Carenado will ever see another dime from me.

[Bob650 31]

Sorry if some found this offensive, but I'm really tired of these guys getting a free pass for shoddy, lousy workmanship and bugs that we see from release to release to release. Anyway, guess that's my last word on this airplane. Enjoy. I'm going to TRY and fix mine so it's at least somewhat believable, but like you Craig, I seriously doubt Carenado will ever see another dime from me.

 

 

Part of the problem Glenn is that you'll invariably get the usual comments saying "it's just a game and FSX limitations and it only costs as much as one dinner out" etc, etc. This completely ignores that for the same price other developers are able to get far far closer to performance specs than Carenado and usually with far better overall attention to detail. Aside from the graphics, not much to see here.

 

And I don't usually come away from a dinner out irritated as hell.

 

 

-Bob

[Wendall 50]

 

 

I'm really tired of these guys getting a free pass for shoddy, lousy workmanship and bugs that we see from release to release to release.

The theory that Carenado is releasing products a few builds too early still stands. Carenado is one of the few companies where waiting for the first Service Pack is always recommended by the community, and it doesn't seem to be fixing that. I bought this aircraft because in the 6ish years I've been simming this is the first business jet Ito come out that I've wanted to buy. I hope that in no less than 45 days there is an SP release that fixes some of the issues, but the behavior that Carenado is still exhibiting on release builds is unacceptable.

[Guest BeaverDriver]

So true Bob. If one sets the bar low enough, someone will always stoop to meet it, especially if they can get away with doing less and making more. If they just COULDN'T do it, that would be different. But we've seen some outstanding releases in the (far distant) past, so we know they can't. They just don't have to now, yet they charge more for it. Sad, we are getting fleeced, and thanking them for doing it. Something wrong with that idea.

 

I sure hope this plane can be brought up to some semblence of decency because it's a great plane to have. I fear though, as so often in the past, it will have to be the customer who does it, but doesn't reap any of the rewards for it. By the by, Thanks Bert for doing the GTN mod. That really is appreciated, as are all your mods and fixes.

By the by, I meant to ask - is anyone compiling and emailing the bugs in this list in? If you're waiting for Carenado to come here and read these, you're going to be nothing but dust and bones before anything happens. Perhaps the topic starter can do this? Would appreciate that.

[Guest]

Carenado do provide a support ticket system which they do respond to, highly recommend those who have purchased and have issues, report those issues ... that's the most likely route to getting them fixed.

 

Here is that link: https://carenado.zendesk.com/anonymous_requests/new

 

Cheers, Rob. 

[Glynn 405]

Can any of you who buy these things from Carenado explain to me why you put yourselves through this time and time again, I am struggling to understand why you do it.

 

I can understand folks new to the hobby being swayed by the nice graphics but there are experienced simmers in this thread that willingly buy everything Carenado put out.

 

Help me here.

[Guest]

 

 

I can understand folks new to the hobby being swayed by the nice graphics but there are experienced simmers in this thread that willingly buy everything Carenado put out

 

Because I know how much work it takes just to get this far with an aircraft and hope the injection of cash from sales will bring about an update.

 

If I stepped up my expectations to every 3rd party developer and even the FS platforms I use ... I wouldn't be doing any flight simulation period.

 

Not that anyone needs to justify their purchase ... more curious why you'd ask this type of question?  Because something doesn't meet YOUR expectations, it may meet other's expectations ... I see little value trying to put Carenado out of business.  

 

Cheers, Rob.

[Glynn 405]

 

 

Not that anyone needs to justify their purchase ... more curious why you'd ask this type of question?

 

I ask because this is a discussion forum and not an official Carenado support forum.

I pretty much only fly buisness jets in the Sim and would love to be able to buy more good ones, I have followed the developement of this addon for some time and would buy it in a heartbeat if it worked properly.

Developers usually get better with each subsequent release but I do not see this with Carenado.

[Bert Pieke 7,585]

For what it is worth, there is much to like here IMHO..

 

It really feels like you are sitting in the cockpit.   The FDE is believable and the avionics useable,

as long as you never turn on the FMC.

 

The GTN750 can be made to fit as an interim solution, while waiting for Carenado to release a GTN update

which they have said they will do.

 

So, you can wait until that all happens and buy later, or have some fun flying the airplane in it's current state

and contribute to the community by pointing out bugs, and suggesting fixes..  it all depends on whether you

find that painful or fun  :unsure:

 

Either way, this is not RealAir or PMDG, for sure.  This is indeed Carenado.

 

But as Liberace once said: " I despaired when I realized that I would never be a Rubinstein, but then

I realized that Rubinstein will never be a Liberace"  :rolleyes:

[Bob650 31]

 

 

Can any of you who buy these things from Carenado explain to me why you put yourselves through this time and time again, I am struggling to understand why you do it.

 

LOL, ever meet a guy with 3 or 4 ex-wives? Sure is pretty, I just know it'll work this time.

 

Well sometimes it's the only game in town. Or only recent release of a plane you really want. As Rob points out, maybe a cash infusion will prompt the developer to do a comprehensive patch. There is a lot of talent among the customers who participate in these forums, like Bert for example. People who can tweak everything from avionics to FDE to textures. Sometimes we buy hoping the local talent can fill in where the developer falls short. That, however, does not make the developer immune from criticism, especially as the prices of add ons ratchets up.

 

 

-Bob

[Glynn 405]

 

 

Either way, this is not RealAir or PMDG, for sure. This is indeed Carenado.

 

But there lies the issue Bert, It's more expensive than the Realair Duke T v2 and the same price as the PMDG J41, If Carenado are pitching their prices in that league they really need to step up to the plate and deliver a solid product.