FSX-SE FSX:SE - wow, wow and WOW

[soldano 0]

If I were you, I would disable vectors when flying the 777. I would also consider running dx10 with Steve's fixer.

 

Vectors is for vfr pilots who follow roads, not for airline pilots who need to focus on flying, emergencies, and making sure the passengers are comfortable.

 

Jose

 

 

Please can explain me what does "vectors" mean ?

Thanks

[CFIJose 5,485]

 

If I were you, I would disable vectors when flying the 777. I would also consider running dx10 with Steve's fixer.

 

Vectors is for vfr pilots who follow roads, not for airline pilots who need to focus on flying, emergencies, and making sure the passengers are comfortable.

 

Jose

 

 

Please can explain me what does "vectors" mean ?

Thanks

 

https://www.fullterrain.com/product/ftxgvector

[Fi5kuS 57]

After adding REX4 textures, FPS started to drop to a point where it was near the boxed version. Still, it "felt" smoother, even with FPS ranging from 18-20 at heavy airports. In the boxed version, 18-20 FPS was killing me, at least thats what I felt. Again, very subjective. Maybe I'm smitten by the AVSIM placebo virus 

 

Anyways, you are all talking about vector. Allow me to chip in. Before the test flight (ESSA-EGLL) with the PMDG 777 I was thinking, "hm maybe I should disable some Vector functions within the Configurator to decrease VAS usage". I winded up running the full course with all settings enabled, in addition to autogen set to dense (or was it very dense?), and LOD radius 5.5. And as I said, landed at Heathrow X with 300 MB left. Also, I forgot to de-select FTX Norway in the Scenery Library, which you barely cross over while flying out of Stockholm Arlanda. So I could have saved 400-500 MB VAS there. In addition, I don't have FTX England, just regular OpenLC and Vector.

 

But here's whats most interesting to me - In the boxed version, I simply couldn't fly without FiberFrameTimeFraction=0.11-0.15. I noticed EXTREMELY slow texture loads in the FSX:SE version. I mean, it took minutes for textures to load. I tried changing AffinityMask - didn't help. Then I completely removed the former tweak. Now, things are running as normal. Not texture loading in the warp speed league, but better than FSX:MS. 

[RickB1293 9]

Let me get this straight. The SE edition REWROTE FSX code to make it somewhat more compact and thus uses less VAS? I don't know about others experience but in my world it isn't FSX that sucks up the resources, it's the addons, so unless they've also been rewritten I don't expect to see much improvement.

 

The biggest resource hogs are the weather injectors like ASN, the weather illustrators that draw beautiful skies and clouds at 4096X4096, the Google Earth type photorealistic scenery artists that place huge chuncks of mother earth in memory so FSX can grab it and display it without running back to the HD every time my Super Hornet passes a city block at Mach 2 and finally the hyper realistic airliners that have to process a lot of info in real time to earn the praise of simmers that won't otherwise ever come near the real airplane.

 

All this still has to happen in the 4GB environment impossed by FSX's 32 bit environment, new C++ runtimes not withstanding. It's more likely that any improvement that comes with Steam is what we in the trade call an illusory correlation. Oh, and recompiling won't overcome VAS limitations without serious procedure rewrites which from my understanding wasn't part of the deal between Steam and MS. Steam is a market channel and anti-piracy platform. Either way FSX is loaded on your system, once it's up it won't matter how it got there.

[Fi5kuS 57]

 

 

I get your point, I too was very skeptical to begin with. However, I've done plenty of fresh installs of Win7 and the boxed version of FSX to know that - yes, FPS increases a bit, but VAS usage stays exactly the same. But I'm 100 % certain in one thing. The FSX:SE version has far better handling of virtual memory. How? Beats me.

 

Official statements of Pete Dowson, creator of FSUIPC and WideFS, is consistent with observations of both increased performance and handling of VAS. Apparently, according to him, Dovetail has actually made slight modifications to the code. 

[RickB1293 9]

Thanks for the update. Be nice if someone relayed the technical specs.

[netshadoe 144]

I can absolutely confirm the VAS handling is better.

 

A few weeks ago, I did this test that would OOM FSX every time...:

 

I loaded the PMDG777 at KJFK with ASN, ORBX FTX Global and Vector, 100% AI with over 250 traffic files from WOAI and MAIW.

 

My SCENERY settings are as follows:

 

-All Terrain and Water settings full right, except water which is at Mid 2.x

-Scenery Objects:

a) Complexity Very Dense

"b"- Autogen Dense (I had to put b in quotes...I get a dude in sunglasses otherwise!! lol)

c) No Ground scenery shadows (FSX-SE still has that bug in certain sceneries that the shadows disrupt the textures)

d) Special Effects on High

 

I don't have a custom KJFK...I have the Mod by Ray Smith (thanks for your contributions Ray!) , but I didn't need it...I was at 3.9MB VAS.  I wanted to get as close to OOM without getting to OOM...you can OOM FSX-SE like any 32bit program...but that wasn't my intent, as you will see.

 

Don't get me wrong...I'm NOT....read NOT...on the FPS bandwagon. For me, is all about VAS.  FPS means nothing if you're back at the desktop.  With that said, FPS doesn't matter to me if it's smooth.  With what I set above, I was getting 18-20FPS in FSX-SE, no stutters, especially in turns.  FSX-MS would be a mess if I hadn't OOMed already.

 

Now, if I did the above with FSX, I'd OOM on taxi-out or takeoff.  With FSX-SE, it actually shed 100-150MB on taxiout, so I was down to 3.8ish in VAS.

 

Leaving the NYC area on my way to KLAX, still with 100% AI, I was seeing FPS increase (usual as you get to altitude) until it hit my lock of 30FPS.  The VAS decreased from 3.8MB to 3.1MB (a 700MB gain) at altitude...and no, this is not clear skies.  In FSX-MS, I'd drop to maybe 3.5-3.6MB...not a lot of room for that LAX approach.

 

VAS ramained steady at about 3.1MB for the entire flight with a slight increase to 3.3 around Chicago...but dropped back down to 3.1MB once past ORD.

 

Arriving into LAX, VAS started to climb as expected, and I was able to land and taxi to gate with a VAS load of 3.6-3.7MB with full AI.  Again, FPS in LAX was around 20-22 FPS, but it was butter smooth. 

 

I would have never seen LAX with FSX-MS...I would have been OOM in JFK with this test.

 

*** This is my unscientific test.  I don't claim FSX-MS, FSX-SE or P3D of any sort is better that the rest.  I'm only offering my experience for the rest of the community.  Take it or leave it.  If it helps you, great!  I'm glad it helped!  If you want to troll, fine, but there won't be any response from me...I got better things to do with my time.

[devgrp 1,233]

Yes VAS is the main reason I have completely switched to fsx se. I did a flight yesterday from FlyTampa Copenhagen to Aerosoft Dublin in the pmdg 777.

 

Anyone with those two airports know they are killer on VAS. As a matter of fact I would avoid flying the 777 into either of those airport before fsx steam.

 

I'm also running ftx global, ftx vector and openlc eu. On the ground at Copenhagen VAS was 3.7, after I took off and got airborne VAS went down to 2.8. I landed at Dublin with 3.5. The only problem I have with fsx steam is the terrain.dll crashes after 3 hr flight which hopefully will be fixed soon.

[tf51d 284]

 

 

Let me get this straight. The SE edition REWROTE FSX code to make it somewhat more compact and thus uses less VAS? I don't know about others experience but in my world it isn't FSX that sucks up the resources, it's the addons, so unless they've also been rewritten I don't expect to see much improvement.

 

Not quite a rewrite, what they did was fix or at least improve the way cleans up it's terrain cache. This releases VAS more during your flight. It's not a fix for the problem, but just gives you an extra amount of resources to make it to your destination. Think of it as your reserve fuel! If you use it up with adding higher detailed scenery then you have now instead, then you'll be right back where you started from, so it's not a license to go move those sliders to the right. Now though if you fly the same conditions, if you have OOM'd on approach or landing with FSX Box, you'll probably make it with a little to spare with FSX-SE.

[netshadoe 144]

 

 

The only problem I have with fsx steam is the terrain.dll crashes after 3 hr flight which hopefully will be fixed soon.

 

Yeah.  I'm curious about that one.  I don't deny they happen, but I haven't seen it (I know, I just jinxed myself!)...though I haven't crossed the Atlantic yet.  I've been the other way, EU via Australia back to NA.  Hopefully they fix it for you guys!

[devgrp 1,233]

Yeah. I'm curious about that one. I don't deny they happen, but I haven't seen it (I know, I just jinxed myself!)...though I haven't crossed the Atlantic yet. I've been the other way, EU via Australia back to NA. Hopefully they fix it for you guys!

this might be a scenery addon issue because some people get it and some don't. No matter where I'm flying I get the crash after about 3hrs. Can you say what scenery addons you are using

[netshadoe 144]

this might be a scenery addon issue because some people get it and some don't. No matter where I'm flying I get the crash after about 3hrs. Can you say what scenery addons you are using

 

Yeah, no prob.

 

Payware:

 

FS Global 2010

FTX Global

FTX Global Vector

GSX

REX4 Clouds and Textures

ASN

SceneryTech LC

 

As for Airports, I really don't use payware.  My favorite part of the hobby is Flight Planning and keeping that schedule, so I fly more than look at airports!    So, I usually use the freeware stuff from AVSIM and other sites that I find through http://www.freewarescenery.com/fsx.html

 

I have about 200ish downloaded scenerys (I don't turn them off) that mostly augment the default airport, and select customized freeware airports such as Toronto, Montreal, London Heathrow, Gatwick, Sydney and many others I pick and choose as I fly to them.  Some are very vanilla, but some really hit hard like EGKK from UK2000.

 

I think I've just been lucky.  I hear there's a "hotbed" near Greenland for these crashes.  But knock on my old noggin, I've been lucky so far.

 

Do you have FSX-MS installed somewhere too, or is your setup strictly FSX-SE?

[n4gix 4,947]

Let me get this straight. The SE edition REWROTE FSX code to make it somewhat more compact and thus uses less VAS?

 

<snipped for brevity>

 

...from my understanding wasn't part of the deal between Steam and MS. Steam is a market channel and anti-piracy platform.

There are several errors in the above.

 

First of all the FSX code was refactored, not rewritten. There is a subtle, yet monumental difference between the two.

 

Refactoring is not rewriting, although many people think they are the same. There are many good reasons to distinguish them, such as regression test requirements and knowledge of system functionality. The technical difference between the two is that refactoring doesn't change the functionality (or information content) of the system whereas rewriting does. Rewriting is reworking.

 

The key words in the license from Microsoft is that the "look and feel" of FSX cannot be altered, which is precisely what refactoring accomplishes. Among the many benefits of refactoring, especially when accompanied with recompiling with a more modern and robust platform, is an increase in efficiency.

 

That FSX:SE has much improved VAS management is the one demonstrable fact that is not afflicted by subjectivity.

 

Secondly, the "deal" is between Dove Tail Games and Microsoft, not "Steam" or "Valve Corporation," the owner of "Steam."

[devgrp 1,233]

Yeah, no prob.

 

Payware:

 

FS Global 2010

FTX Global

FTX Global Vector

GSX

REX4 Clouds and Textures

ASN

SceneryTech LC

<snipped excessive quote>

Do you have FSX-MS installed somewhere too, or is your setup strictly FSX-SE?

I only have FSX SE on a fresh install of Windows 10, and mine crashes no matter where I fly. I can usually tell when its going to crash when I'm coming up on the 3+ hr time. I have all those addons that you use except for scenery tech and I'm also using FS Global ultimate mesh so that may be whats causing. I had the terrain.dll crash in regular fsx but it was only when my autogen and scenery complexity was at very dense or higher and it was random but if I backed off the autogen to normal I could fly for hrs without any problem.

 

I tried the autogen and scenery complexity at normal in fsx se and still got the crash though

Edited February 23, 2015 by n4gix
Removed excessive quote.

[netshadoe 144]

I only have FSX SE on a fresh install of Windows 10, and mine crashes no matter where I fly. I can usually tell when its going to crash when I'm coming up on the 3+ hr time. I have all those addons that you use except for scenery tech and I'm also using FS Global ultimate mesh so that may be whats causing. I had the terrain.dll crash in regular fsx but it was only when my autogen and scenery complexity was at very dense or higher and it was random but if I backed off the autogen to normal I could fly for hrs without any problem.

 

I tried the autogen and scenery complexity at normal in fsx se and still got the crash though

 

It's weird that it doesn't affect everyone.  I was just wondering if you had a dual install because I have SE only, so I was wondering if that might have contributed to something.  I guess not!

 

Hopefully Dovetail can get something out that will sort this out for you and the others dealing with this.